View Poll Results: Should the International Freedom Center be built on the WTC site?

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  • It should be built right where its planned on the WTC site.

    17 39.53%
  • It should be built but off the WTC site.

    9 20.93%
  • It should be built in some other place of the WTC site.

    7 16.28%
  • It should not be built at all, anywhere.

    10 23.26%
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Thread: WTC Memorial Pavilion - Visitors Center - by Snohetta

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    Eliminate one of the towers, and put the cultural center there.

    A good place might be the Deutsche Bank site. It's the least attractive for commercial leasing (farthest from the transit center), and far enough from the memorial not to upset anyone ( I am probably wrong on this point).
    It's good ideas like this that will unfortunately never materialize in a site so preoccupied with restoring all the lost office space, no matter who brings them into the spotlight. As long as Larry controls the redevelopment, what are the realistic odds of eliminating a tower? I think the Port Authority, as bureaucratic and corporate as they are, would be much more open to suggestions like this if they were in full control.

  2. #47
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    But, placing the cultural center at the Deutsche site doesn't necessarily diminish the ability to restore the site to its previous level of commercial and retail space. Perhaps the FT could be the beginning of an ascending spiral rather than a descending spiral.

  3. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman11686
    As long as Larry controls the redevelopment, what are the realistic odds of eliminating a tower? I think the Port Authority, as bureaucratic and corporate as they are, would be much more open to suggestions like this if they were in full control.
    Silverstein is a roadblock, but the PA should share the blame. They must appreciate the $10 million monthly lease payments from Silverstein, which is based on his rights to rent out 10 million sq ft. It seems logical that a reduction in the amount of space would mean a lower payment. The PA would probably have to reimburse Silverstein for overpayment since 09/11.

    As a simple mathematical example: A 1.5 million sq ft reduction would be $18 million less per year in lease payments. Over 4 years, that's $72 million - not chump change.

  4. #49
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Here we go. More downsizing:

    http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index...id=1&aid=51987

    Officials To Scale Back International Freedom Center At WTC Site

    NY1

    July 07, 2005

    Some major changes could be coming to the controversial museum slated to be built at the World Trade Center site.

    Officials say the International Freedom Center will be scaled down in size and moved farther back from the victimís memorial. IFC officials say this will make the focus of the center more on the victims of 9/11 rather than global freedom movements.

    Many family members complained the center would be anti-American and disrespectful to the dead.

    The museum's chairman announced the changes in a letter sent to the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation on Wednesday. The LMDC says it is in the process of reviewing the letter, and that it hopes to reach a resolution on the issues that have been raised.
    </FONT>

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1
    Although it will probably never happen, I agree with Zippy that moving the Snohetta building to the Deutsche Bank site would be a better solution.

    Opening up the area where the Snohetta building is now situated would also benefit Calatrava's plan for the transporation center, creating an open vista that will allow his beautiful design to soar (rather than being boxed in as it is under the current plan).

    This is Manhattan. Since when do we have sweeping vistas? I actually find just the opposite to be true. In this crowded city, many times you will turn a corner and suddenly be face-to-face with a beautiful building. Surrounding the Calatrava Station with buildings may create just that effect. The LAST thing downtown needs is more barren, dead space.

  6. #51

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    International Freedom Center will be scaled down in size and moved farther back from the victimís memorial
    This is good news.

    NOW make it a solemn and timeless 'temple of freedom' something as great as the Lincoln Memorial for example. And lose the wood; only the most enduring materials should be used.

    And for crying out loud - there should be an AMERICAN FLAG flying from the top of it.

  7. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by BPC
    This is Manhattan. Since when do we have sweeping vistas?
    It's more than an issue of space. The building itself is already being dumbed-down.

    The museum will be burdened with a vague mission, and it seems, an absence of free speech. Well, that's American.

    If this continues, I'm going to have to turn the thumbs-up icon around.

  8. #53
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    They need to scale that Freedom Center down to the size of the "Imagine" mosaic in Strawberry Fields. That says and does it all with simplicity in a peaceful, yet thriving setting.

  9. #54
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    From the LMDC website:

    http://www.lowermanhattan.info/news/...ew_36776.asp#5


    Officials Announce Plans to Change Freedom Center Focus, Design

    Thursday, July 7: In response to strong criticisms from family members of 9/11 victims, officials in charge of the International Freedom Center - one of the museums proposed for the new WTC site -- announced that plans for the center will be revised to focus more on the victims of the 2001 terror attacks, the New York Post reported...

    LMDC President Stefan Pryor has also called for the museum to be scaled down in size to provide more space between the building and the WTC Memorial. Rebuilding officials are still developing revised plans for the center, the paper added.
    Last edited by lofter1; July 8th, 2005 at 10:47 AM.

  10. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    Silverstein is a roadblock, but the PA should share the blame. They must appreciate the $10 million monthly lease payments from Silverstein, which is based on his rights to rent out 10 million sq ft. It seems logical that a reduction in the amount of space would mean a lower payment. The PA would probably have to reimburse Silverstein for overpayment since 09/11.

    As a simple mathematical example: A 1.5 million sq ft reduction would be $18 million less per year in lease payments. Over 4 years, that's $72 million - not chump change.
    Good point Chimp

    Nothing is ever going to get built there once the court cases get going since they have significantly reduced the space where Silverstein can build.

    I don't quite understand why they are so deadset on the cultural buildings being stand alone. They could have been included in the neighboring buildings improving the memorial core and ensuring better viability for the both the neighboring buildings and their towers.

    In any event, the next big ball to drop at Ground Zero is going to be transportation center (which was never part of the original master plan as a stand alone). The center is basically just a subway/PATH station yet it's cost is $2 billion -- equal to or more than the West Side Stadium. It's pretty certain now that the $6 billion LIRR tunnel will never be built. The temporary station that's there now is already better than almost any on either line.

  11. #56

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    To respond to my own post. The Transportation Center is now officially in the crosshairs
    http://gutter.curbed.com/archives/20...avas_wings.php

  12. #57

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    heck no not the station. That is the only trully perfect proposed structure for the site.

  13. #58
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    July 12, 2005
    Keeping Ground Zero Free
    For nearly four years now, the 9/11 families - those who lost immediate family members in that tragedy - have provided an inestimable service to this nation. They helped drive forward the inquiries of the Sept. 11 commission. They helped formulate any number of the projects being developed at ground zero. They have reminded us conscientiously of what was lost on that day.

    But in the past few weeks, we've watched a handful of vocal family members, who may not represent a majority of 9/11 families, change the dynamic at the World Trade Center site for the worse. They have begun a movement to "take back the memorial," which means, in essence, eventually purging ground zero of its cultural partners, including the International Freedom Center.

    This protest resulted in a shocking response in late June from Gov. George Pataki. He openly joined the criticism of one of those institutions - the Drawing Center - for an exhibition that it sponsored, in another part of town, that contains controversial images of 9/11 and America's role in the world. And he has called on all the cultural partners at ground zero for reassurances that their programs will harmonize with the concerns of this small group of family members.

    The World Trade Center site is of enormous importance to all New Yorkers, to all Americans and to people around the planet who have united to fight the insidious forces that led to 9/11. Mr. Pataki's job is to represent all those deeply interested parties. By attempting to appease one small, vocal group of protesters who are unlikely to be appeased anyway, he is abrogating the rights of everyone else. And he runs the risk of turning ground zero into a place where we bury the freedoms that define this nation.

    There must be no mistake about this. If the Drawing Center is forced to withdraw from ground zero rather than accept the censorship of exhibitions that are yet to be imagined, no other respectable arts institution will take its place.

    What was offered as an open invitation to restore the artistic life of Lower Manhattan will have turned into an invitation to provide only the kind of cultural offerings that please a vocal group of people whose genuine grief has already taken on a sharply political edge. Those are unacceptable conditions that would undermine the very purpose of the arts. If the International Freedom Center must continually bend over backward to placate a handful of angry family members, then all of its commitment to the conscience of that site, to what it can teach us about the character of freedom in the world, will have been compromised.

    What we build at ground zero has to honor the memory of one terrible day in the history of America, but it also has to belong to the future as well, a future as optimistic and forward-looking as we can imagine. It cannot be a place devoted entirely to death. If ground zero is not a place of life and creativity, of true artistic and political freedom, then it will not be successful even as a place of grief.



    Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

  14. #59
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    Typical left-wing shit.

    Anyway, I think it's funny that this person says a couple of familes that may not represent everyone is making a big deal about this. Isn't that what happens with all the NIMBYism that runs rampant in this city? Every major project is slowed or killed by a too-vocal few. Yet another example of the Times talking out of its collective ass.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyblancoNYC
    Typical left-wing shit...Yet another example of the Times talking out of its collective ass.
    Taking on attempts to censor art exhibitions on publicy owned land and in publicly financed museums is hardly "left-wing". It is American.



    Quote Originally Posted by billyblancoNYC
    ...Anyway, I think it's funny that this person says a couple of familes that may not represent everyone is making a big deal about this. Isn't that what happens with all the NIMBYism that runs rampant in this city? Every major project is slowed or killed by a too-vocal few.
    The problem here is that we are getting NIMBYism for folks who (1) don't live here (2) don't own the property and (3) keep deluding themselves into thinking that they represent the prevailing viewpoint.

    I think the Times was right on target.

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