View Poll Results: Hotel Pennsylvania should be replaced with the proposed office building

Voters
169. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    76 44.97%
  • No

    93 55.03%
Page 102 of 131 FirstFirst ... 252929899100101102103104105106112 ... LastLast
Results 1,516 to 1,530 of 1956

Thread: Hotel Pennsylvania - by McKim Mead & White - to be replaced by 15 Penn Plaza

  1. #1516

    Default

    It's a tough one. You don't want to be too precious. If we were we wouldn't have Gehry's Beekman as it ruins the free view of Wooly from the bridge. It would be a shame to lose that view of the ESB but if you start these sightline restrictions it will only get worse. We already lost some height on Tour Verre because apparently it isn't good enough for the ESB. It would be a domino effect. Very soon you wouldn't be able to build near Chrysler and then another and another.

  2. #1517

    Default

    Being a flat-top, being dull, and being very tall, this is an especially offensive building. By being too nearby, it reduces the Empire State Building to relative insignificance on the skyline. It's like the Cordoba Mosque; the specifics of the instance are everything.

  3. #1518
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    130

    Default

    Comparing the height of the developer's proposed boring behemoth with the iconic Empire State Building is bad enough, but the telling comparison is between what Vornado could build as of right and what the Bloomberg Administration is allowing them to do. Obviously, what Vornado and Bloomberg both want is bulkier and taller, so the question then becomes "in exchange for what public benefit?" I recall that the developer is offering to to rebuild a now closed passageway between 7th and 6th avenues - but so what. I really doubt that this public benefit justifies the public expense of cramming more and more people into what is already a very crowded part of Midtown who would work in this hulking, banal monstrosity.

    Aside from the reopened passageway, is there anything else Vornado is going to do for New York with this enormous thing? I suspect that, yet again, Mayor Bloomberg is effectively sacrificing the public interest to his pet narcissistic conceit that the public is served (well, eventually), when wealthy interests are allowed to make as much money as possible.

  4. #1519

    Default

    Ablarc, that shows the inherent flaw in the system. It shouldn't be a special case because it is the ESB (even though the ESB is spectacularly special) there should be quality buildings built everywhere instead of this cheap, bland nonsense. Whether it is a small scale or large and if it affects a gorgeous townhouse or the ESB.

  5. #1520

    Default

    Doubt the design rendered will be the one built.

    What burns me up about the city planning decision is that our imaginary architect, Amanda Burden demanded very little from Vornado regarding the design of the tower. They could have at least given a conditional approval, insisting that the design had to be improved.

    For how much free space they're getting, planning probably could have stipulated anything-something great.


    But the same agency chops Torre Verre, forces it to keep its original design (somehow) and mandates that Hines report back to them before construction.
    All for some trivial variances. The total size of Torre Verre doesn't even equal the extra space just given to Vornado. What an arbitrary joke.

  6. #1521
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default

    "trivial variances" ha ha that's funny.

    I'm not defending the Burden chop, but the acquisition of those very complex and all encompassing variances are what made anything close to the design of Torre Verre possible.

    And the two towers are completely apples and oranges (one fronting onto a major avenue, the other solely on a side street; one completely within a single zoning district, the other on a lot touching on multiple zoning districts, etc.).

  7. #1522
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Nairobi Hilton
    Posts
    8,511

    Default

    Plus with the new passageway, train commuters will be able to walk underground directly to the building, which should ease surface congestion a little.

  8. #1523

    Default

    Amanda Burden is a disingenuous c.u.nt. How could anyone not regard this as a structure not worth saving? It needs to be rehabilitated. The city should simply let Vornado transfer 100% of the air rights to another site in return for renovating the hotel to its original form.


  9. #1524
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default

    Amanda Burden has NOTHING to do with Landmarking (aka "saving") buildings in NYC. She is the NY City Planning Commissioner.

    if folks can't get it into their heads the different oversight and responsibilities under City Planning Commission v. Landmarks Preservation Commission then any real discussion regarding building in NYC becomes difficult to pursue.

  10. #1525

    Default

    Wasn't she involved in some recent decision regarding 15 Penn? I read a quote by her in the paper approving of this project.

  11. #1526

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    "trivial variances" ha ha that's funny.

    I'm not defending the Burden chop, but the acquisition of those very complex and all encompassing variances are what made anything close to the design of Torre Verre possible.
    I meant trivial variances in that the as-of right zoning should not have prevented a form like Torre Verre in the first place. Bulk is another matter. It should not be that difficult to get a narrow tapering tower built in Midtown, even on a sidestreet. How does zoning that promotes squat setback boxes benefit anyone?

    It should work the other way around, developers should need variances to build squat boxes. All these somewhat arbitrarily drawn zoning districts, setback planes, and streetwall heights in Midtown have mostly produced a cacophony of crap.

    And the two towers are completely apples and oranges (one fronting onto a major avenue, the other solely on a side street; one completely within a single zoning district, the other on a lot touching on multiple zoning districts, etc.).
    Maybe apples and oranges when considering reasonable bulk and shadow, but my issue is how one tower is judged on its skyline impact and architectural merit, while the other tower is not. This has nothing to do with zoning districts or whether its on a street or avenue.
    Last edited by Derek2k3; August 22nd, 2010 at 02:32 AM.

  12. #1527
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    in Limbo
    Posts
    8,976

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    Amanda Burden has NOTHING to do with Landmarking (aka "saving") buildings in NYC. She is the NY City Planning Commissioner.
    We know that. I think that must be the 80 millionth time you've said it here and elsewhere. Jeez.

    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    Wasn't she involved in some recent decision regarding 15 Penn? I read a quote by her in the paper approving of this project.
    londonlawyer, you've been here since 2003 and yet you can't seem to figure out that this project had to go through ULURP for the different variances and bonus air rights that Vornado was asking for. Thus had to go through City Planning and the Amanda Burden cunt-ster.



    Everyone's problem with her (except for lofter) is that she ridiculously claims that the Tower Verre's top negatively affects the ESB while she wholeheartedly gives her stamp of approval for this tower.

    In other words, she's full of it.
    Last edited by antinimby; August 22nd, 2010 at 11:24 AM.

  13. #1528

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    Amanda Burden is a disingenuous c.u.nt. How could anyone not regard this as a structure not worth saving?
    Because, as you well know, the decision is only ostensibly about Art/Archecture and the aesthetic beautification of NY city; there is also NYC politics, power plays, favors owed and or given - you can not be that naive to think otherwise.

  14. #1529
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Nairobi Hilton
    Posts
    8,511

    Default

    He can't even figure out where he lives.

  15. #1530

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by infoshare View Post
    Because, as you well know, the decision is only ostensibly about Art/Archecture and the aesthetic beautification of NY city; there is also NYC politics, power plays, favors owed and or given - you can not be that naive to think otherwise.
    I am well aware of that.

Similar Threads

  1. W New York - Times Square Hotel
    By hyperfine in forum New York City Guide For Visitors
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: January 18th, 2005, 09:55 PM
  2. Skyline Hotel 10th Avenue - How is the area?
    By Annie Wood in forum Questions and Answers about New York City
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: August 31st, 2003, 05:56 PM
  3. NYC Targets 5.4M SF in New Brooklyn Office Towers
    By billyblancoNYC in forum Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx, and SI Real Estate
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: June 16th, 2003, 09:43 PM
  4. In Office Market, a Time of Uncertainty
    By Edward in forum New York Real Estate
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: January 6th, 2002, 09:18 PM
  5. Pictures of luxurious W Hotel - Times Square
    By Edward in forum New York City Guide For Visitors
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: December 29th, 2001, 01:36 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Google+ - Facebook - Twitter - Meetup

Edward's photos on Flickr - Wired New York on Flickr - In Queens - In Red Hook - Bryant Park - SQL Backup Software