View Poll Results: Hotel Pennsylvania should be replaced with the proposed office building

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  • Yes

    76 44.97%
  • No

    93 55.03%
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Thread: Hotel Pennsylvania - by McKim Mead & White - to be replaced by 15 Penn Plaza

  1. #1561

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    I saw in the tTimees that Malkin is proposing a no go zone arounnd the ESB to protect the views. That is utterly ridiculous.

  2. #1562
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    ^ Of course it's ridiculous, they just want a monopoly for their flagship property. The ESB isn't going anywhere, there are plenty of magestic buildings that have been sandwiched far worse over the years and are still admired today

  3. #1563
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    I think 15 Penn Plaza as proposed is a colossal waste of an opportunity. I think that having the green light for such a dense FAR should embolden Vornado to build the tallest skyscraper in the United States, and with a much better design. PLEASE revise this building's design!!

  4. #1564

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    All of this just reminded me of something.

    The original Landmarks Preservation bill in 1964 had a 400 foot provision, where the LPC would have design jurisdiction over all property within a 400 foot radius of a landmarked building. The City Council had it removed under pressure from the real estate industry before they passed it into law.

  5. #1565

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    ^
    And I'm glad they did. To bad they allow the landmarked district nonsense.

  6. #1566

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    As an office building, the ESB has always been a bit of a failure. It's always been in the wrong neigborhood, and it's internal space lacked desireable feature and/or has undesirable features (small windows, lots of internal columns, etc). It's main value is as a tourist attraction. So it's management is trying to protect that.

    But that's their problem. They have no right to try to impose restrictions on another owner's property to try to prop up their revenue. In point of fact, Vornado should be building the new building taller that the ESB, and possibly taller than then 1 WTC.

    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    ^ Of course it's ridiculous, they just want a monopoly for their flagship property. The ESB isn't going anywhere, there are plenty of magestic buildings that have been sandwiched far worse over the years and are still admired today

  7. #1567
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBMW View Post

    To bad they allow the landmarked district nonsense.
    Yeah, they should get rid of all that pesky zoning nonsense, too.

    Developers know best.

  8. #1568

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    ^
    I don't have a problem with zoning, if it's done for the right reasons (alignment of use, conservation of public resources, prevention of interference with other properties.)

    Landmarking is about nothing other than freezing an aethetic in an area. It also creates a valuable tools for the nimby/luddite/class warrior crowd to use to prevent landowners from making use of their own properites.

    Sometime zoning is used for the same nefarious purposes (witness the issue with the Jean Nouvel building in Midtown, and what the luddites did with that). That needed a varience, so there was an opening for the local idiots to play with. But where a building is as of right, there ususally nothing the anti-progress crowd can do about it. Unless, of course, the area is landmarked.

  9. #1569
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Yeah Landmarking offers no greater value to the community at large or gives any benefit whatsoever to property owners. Look at all those landholders who are suffering in Soho and Tribeca, Brooklyn Heights, the Village, etcetera, etcetera.

  10. #1570

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    We don't know what the opportunite cost was for landmarking those areas. Has the landmarking held them back or helped them. They've certainly keep them smaller (in terms of number of housing units, square feet of usable commercial space, etc). It's not like there's never been shortage of housing in NYC or anything.

    Oh, and maybe you should have to get an okay for the city the next time you want to redecorate your living room. Your furnature have have some historical/architectural significance.

  11. #1571

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    Meanwhile as Vornado (NY developers ) pushes this crap glass box on us...
    Paris gets to look forward to this-

    Thank you for the pic Minato ku

  12. #1572
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
    We don't know what the opportunite cost was for landmarking those areas.
    We do know that Soho would now most likely have a freeway running through it without the creation of the LPC and had it not been designated an Historic District.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
    Oh, and maybe you should have to get an okay for the city the next time you want to redecorate your living room.
    Straw Man. No one is doing that.

  13. #1573

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    1). The freeway, if it was built, would have been built by the state, which could have ignored the city landmark law. It was squashed at the political level, with the fall of Moses.

    2). No it your apt (yet - be careful what antiques you buy). But Mercedes can't touch the interior of it's dealership on Park without LPC permission, because it was designed by Frank Lloyd Wright. How far away is that? And what happens if Mercedes gives up the space and the next person who wants to rent it doesn't have a use that's compatable with the design?


    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    We do know that Soho would now most likely have a freeway running through it without the creation of the LPC and had it not been designated an Historic District.



    Straw Man. No one is doing that.

  14. #1574

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    The only solution: bring back 1916 setback zoning.

  15. #1575

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
    1). The freeway, if it was built, would have been built by the state, which could have ignored the city landmark law.
    Where did you get this from?

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