View Poll Results: Hotel Pennsylvania should be replaced with the proposed office building

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  • Yes

    76 44.97%
  • No

    93 55.03%
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Thread: Hotel Pennsylvania - by McKim Mead & White - to be replaced by 15 Penn Plaza

  1. #1756
    Forum Veteran TREPYE's Avatar
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    WOW!

    What an example.

    Destroying NYC's fabric and at the same time erecting the mediocrity that degenerates this city's architectural profile. I have stopped caring because its either something old and nice get torn down for some thing less than worthy or some crap cratitecture gets erected. But this is something else I tell you, it is the quintissential double whammy, any worse and there would be talk of replacing ESB with an SOM cash cow. It is what I would denote as the Regressive Replacement as with this NYC regresses into some of contemporary wannabes of this age. Glass age superficials that build for mass, not grace.

    Many of these cities would kill for a structuture with the grace, history and recognition of Hotel Penn. Many cities would build around structures ike these to set up their cities character. Yet here in this depressing city of knaves, schemers and profiteers it get relegated to rubble in the name of its "disrepair" and make space modern office space.

    The hotel is not old it is deliberately going into putrid conditions so that the putrid intention of the developer gets fufilled. Considering all of the other useless lots that are around that SHOULD be demolished it is, once again, a travesty that this city gives its citizens and visitors.

    Meanwhile Pelli once again shows his age and his lost touch with this lamentable generic design that he borrows from Hong Kong, Charlotte, Cleveland and Jersey City; at least the first two got topped as we are getting Jersey's decapitated version. In addition, it is bulky, graceless and nondescript superficial glass, it couldnt be a pimple in ESB's ass in terms of presentability.

    And folks bring up this absurdity of free market. Free maket is not a good driver for all things, science and technology, yes; NYC architectural design, it is like Supermans kryptonite. It weakens it and eventually it will make it nondescript and a mere mortal or [wannabe] Dubai. Developers markets are made primarily of opportunist that begged, borrowed and stole to their position, never, and I emphasize the word, NEVER, caring about anything greater than themselves. That is why we attempt to have goverments in place to protect us from these stake holders who never relinquish their myopia; but yet they fail us too, no (lets make sure we vote some of em out). And yet again, in this case the developer rumbles on to NYC's architectural regression...

    As I have said before, take plenty or pictures of the NYC skyline so that we can show our grandchildren of how this city once was.

  2. #1757

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    Hear, hear

  3. #1758

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    Yeah, I HEAR ya, it's not terrible: but, I would like to see that 'architectural design' get a few revisions/improvements. Less bulk: for one.

  4. #1759

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    Would you like some cheese with whine.

    I'm sorry, the Pennsylvania has been a dump for as long as I can remember (going back 30+ years). If it was such a part of the "fabric" of the city, someone would have found somethign better to do with it over the decades. It's a crappy, old, run down hotel that should have been torn down two booms ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by TREPYE View Post




    WOW!

    What an example.

    Destroying NYC's fabric and at the same time erecting the mediocrity that degenerates this city's architectural profile. I have stopped caring because its either something old and nice get torn down for some thing less than worthy or some crap cratitecture gets erected. But this is something else I tell you, it is the quintissential double whammy, any worse and there would be talk of replacing ESB with an SOM cash cow. It is what I would denote as the Regressive Replacement as with this NYC regresses into some of contemporary wannabes of this age. Glass age superficials that build for mass, not grace.

    Many of these cities would kill for a structuture with the grace, history and recognition of Hotel Penn. Many cities would build around structures ike these to set up their cities character. Yet here in this depressing city of knaves, schemers and profiteers it get relegated to rubble in the name of its "disrepair" and make space modern office space.

    The hotel is not old it is deliberately going into putrid conditions so that the putrid intention of the developer gets fufilled. Considering all of the other useless lots that are around that SHOULD be demolished it is, once again, a travesty that this city gives its citizens and visitors.

    Meanwhile Pelli once again shows his age and his lost touch with this lamentable generic design that he borrows from Hong Kong, Charlotte, Cleveland and Jersey City; at least the first two got topped as we are getting Jersey's decapitated version. In addition, it is bulky, graceless and nondescript superficial glass, it couldnt be a pimple in ESB's ass in terms of presentability.

    And folks bring up this absurdity of free market. Free maket is not a good driver for all things, science and technology, yes; NYC architectural design, it is like Supermans kryptonite. It weakens it and eventually it will make it nondescript and a mere mortal or [wannabe] Dubai. Developers markets are made primarily of opportunist that begged, borrowed and stole to their position, never, and I emphasize the word, NEVER, caring about anything greater than themselves. That is why we attempt to have goverments in place to protect us from these stake holders who never relinquish their myopia; but yet they fail us too, no (lets make sure we vote some of em out). And yet again, in this case the developer rumbles on to NYC's architectural regression...

    As I have said before, take plenty or pictures of the NYC skyline so that we can show our grandchildren of how this city once was.

  5. #1760

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    would you like a new record for that player...

  6. #1761
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
    Would you like some cheese with whine.

    I'm sorry, the Pennsylvania has been a dump for as long as I can remember (going back 30+ years). If it was such a part of the "fabric" of the city, someone would have found somethign better to do with it over the decades. It's a crappy, old, run down hotel that should have been torn down two booms ago.
    So what you are saying is that if somebody did not devote the efforts of renovations the way the Plaza did it would have still been a dump? It fell into the wrong careless hands, who did not do right by it the way the many New Yorkers would.

    Reminds me of that Ebbets Field Story about how disgusting and smelly the bathrooms were there; what they failed to mention is that that degenerate O'Malley never bothered to clean them or upkeep them. To this day its loss is lamented.

    Goes to show, superficialities are convenient but hardly ever accurate representations. Behind all of that scum and dirt and smell there is a story of deliberate negligence to win over the convictions of the simple minded.

  7. #1762

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    Not that its worth should be determined by this, but ask any New Yorker what the Hotel Penn looks like and they'll have no idea. No one but hard-core architecture fanatics are going to remember this building when its gone. It'll be like the Drake, a nice building that vanished into the dust.

    Yea, it'd be a nice building if fixed up, but comparing it to the Plaza and the old Penn Station is crazy. There is nothing about this ungainly hotel that is memorable and no renovation will change that.

  8. #1763

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    Thats right very few will miss or even know the Penn hotel is gone or ever was there. But they will not be able to miss 15 Penn Plaza when its finished. This magnificent tower will become a landmark on the NYC skyline.

  9. #1764
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    Bigchet, the new tower at 15 Penn plaza will be "magnificent" and "a landmark on the NYC skyline" ONLY if it is significantly redesigned, because as currently designed it promises to be nothing but an appalling eyesore and blight on the community.

  10. #1765

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    I see a giant glass beard and mustache trimmer.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #1766
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
    Yea, it'd be a nice building if fixed up, but comparing it to the Plaza and the old Penn Station is crazy. There is nothing about this ungainly hotel that is memorable and no renovation will change that.
    Im sorry if my previous statement about the Plaza wasnt, well, simple enough. I never compared it to the Plaza what I am saying is that if the developer showed some of the care and maitenance the Plaza (obvioulsy the Plaza is grander) has gotten Hotel Penn would be more recognized and well regarded.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchet View Post
    Thats right very few will miss or even know the Penn hotel is gone or ever was there.
    Of course not, if you think this:

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchet View Post
    This magnificent tower will become a landmark on the NYC skyline.
    Why bother trying to learn to enjoy the subtle complexities of a fine red wine when you can just have some sweet easy to taste grape juice, right.

    Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder. The beauty of Hotel Penn is that it is of a dying breed of architecture that is going extinct. Actually, it is already dead because nobody builds like this anymore. Stone work and brick mansory are elements that just do not and prob will never get built to this level of authenticity again. Why so quick to throw it away, for another glass box; we will be getting those till the end of time.

  12. #1767

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    How many people miss the Singer Building? For that matter, what people miss [or complain] about Penn Station is the travel experience. GCT is appreciated because it was saved, and still here.

  13. #1768

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    How about this broken record: the only way to avoid this crap is some form of the 1916 setback zoning. NYC's modernist zoning policy is the real bulky, decrepit relic in this conversation.

    NYC needs a simple, straightforward code that can't, under any circumstances, be gamed by savvy connected developers. It would force even the crap to conform to an overall vision of classic New York that everyone can agree on. I'd be happy if this project simply acknowledged that magnificent 7th ave street wall, which is as successful and iconic as upper Park Avenue.

    Think of what the Garment District factories along 8th ave and all the side streets would have looked like without setback zoning. As it stands now it's a classic New York neighborhood. Dirty and old, yes, but 100% New York.

    Where would we put the supertowers, you ask? To be honest, I can do without them. If that frustrates you, good. All this old-fashioned talk of tearing Hotel Penn beacuse it's a dumpy old piles bricks frustrates me. Perhaps we could let our planners, not developers, decide where to put our supertalls.
    Last edited by dbhstockton; September 14th, 2010 at 10:47 AM. Reason: typos

  14. #1769

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    If it had been neglected and allowed to deteriorate, the Park Central Hotel at 7th Ave and 55th would be regarded by some as an old pile of bricks.

  15. #1770

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    All vornado did was take advantage of the air rights and planted a box at this site. They should've redesigned this skyscraper to compliment the ESB. A few tiers would be nice.

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