View Poll Results: Hotel Pennsylvania should be replaced with the proposed office building

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    76 44.97%
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Thread: Hotel Pennsylvania - by McKim Mead & White - to be replaced by 15 Penn Plaza

  1. #1786
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    The fact is that the design is second rate.

  2. #1787

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    NY Mag: The top of 15 Penn Plaza will curve slightly inward as if embarrassed by its massiveness. Vertical folds in the curtain wall on each façade and at each corner resemble slits in a satin gown worn by an elephant.
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyO View Post
    Give me a break. This magazine may sell to nimbys but there's nothing newsworthy being relayed here. It's the same poo-pooing of the new while trying to appear open to new things.
    Over-the-top descriptive terms notwithstanding, many people here with a sophisticated view of architecture have panned this building.

    Downtown has bigger buildings and more office space, but the once-famous skyline has been muted to only massive, one box at a time.

    Do you agree?

  3. #1788
    Forum Veteran TREPYE's Avatar
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    ^ Yep. Graceful spires soaring out of DT were drowned out by modernist blobs that give us that jumble of a skyline that resembles a graceless piece of dough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
    NY Mag
    The Ungainly Monoliths of Manhattan’s Future

    * 8/30/10 at 5:02 PM
    http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/08...s_of_manh.html

    Aesthetic arguments always seem feeble against such calculations, but the unsentimental efficiency that built this city is poised to raise a crop of ungainly monoliths.
    Right on! Hopefully someone with some clout reads this and takes action.

    Cant Capitalism move forward with some more aestheic taste? This barebones profiting is costing this citys iconic profile.

    Considering whats being demolished, what is being erected and what it will lead to, this will be one of the most depressing developments this city has ever seen.

    15 Penn will turn into Midtowns own One Chase Plaza.

  4. #1789

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    ^
    Oh no. Trepye's on my side.

    J/K. Welcome back. We'll talk Mets in the off-season.

  5. #1790
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    If 15 Penn turns out to be a One Chase Plaza then we will be very lucky. That is a superb work of modern architecture by Gordon Bunshaft of SOM, back when it was the leader of American architecture - the McKim, Mead, and White of its day.

    Far from being One Chase Plaza, the present incarnation of 15 Penn Plaza coughed up by Pelli Clarke Pelli promises to be more like a Midtown version of 55 Water Street. Ugh.

  6. #1791
    Forum Veteran TREPYE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    ^
    Oh no. Trepye's on my side.

    J/K. Welcome back. We'll talk Mets in the off-season.
    Sorry; thanks; Wilpon needs to sell pronto.


    Quote Originally Posted by ttk View Post
    If 15 Penn turns out to be a One Chase Plaza then we will be very lucky. That is a superb work of modern architecture by Gordon Bunshaft of SOM, back when it was the leader of American architecture - the McKim, Mead, and White of its day.

    Far from being One Chase Plaza, the present incarnation of 15 Penn Plaza coughed up by Pelli Clarke Pelli promises to be more like a Midtown version of 55 Water Street. Ugh.
    Eye of the beholder. I behold 1CP to be a repulsive, imaginatively frugal piece of architecture and undoubtedly one of the worst things that ever happened to NYC. 55 WS was pretty much inspired by 1 CP, large floor plates, plazas instead of setbacks; if you like one how could you not like the other?? Unless the building's color has a high bearing on your architectural outlook, which I would find rather primitive.

  7. #1792

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    The bottom line is that NY is becoming uglier and more pathetic as each day passes. The latest tragedy is 120 W 57th soon to be followed by the demolition of the 57th Street townhouses. NY is a sewer.

  8. #1793
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    The difference between 1CP and 55 Water is rather obvious to the discerning eye, TREPYE. One is a superb example of mid-century modernism, and (for good reason) a city landmark; the other is not. I'll have a little more to say later on the relative merits of these two buildings, but I gotta get back to work.

  9. #1794

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    I think you nailed it, ttk, (you ol' elitist).

  10. #1795
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    Over-the-top descriptive terms notwithstanding, many people here with a sophisticated view of architecture have panned this building.

    Downtown has bigger buildings and more office space, but the once-famous skyline has been muted to only massive, one box at a time.

    Do you agree?
    They said the same thing about the BofA tower, and now that's the example of how to build modern gracefully. It's ridiculous. My opinion of 15 Penn is that it's along the lines of 1WTC, or 4WTC, or 30 Hudson St.: acceptable. It does its job but it's doesn't vere outside the mainstream. It's not likely the final design and it will be tweaked. Maybe with some horizontals and small setbacks like 2IFC in Hong Kong (which I consider a very attractive tower) it could be improved.

    But all the hyperbole denies the fact: building on a grid after over 100 years of skyscrapers and you have a finite set of basic designs. Don't like this one? The alternatives won't be very new and exciting to you either, let alone anyone stuck in the "it was always better yesterday" camp. The only ones who have money to burn by consistently designing the far-fetched are in Dubai and China. And the more "different" designs that go up in either of those places would likely get more ridicule here in NY and moreover, just not fit.

  11. #1796

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    It isn't that difficult to build with more grace. Simply tapering the tower or having setbacks does wonders.

  12. #1797

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyO View Post
    But all the hyperbole denies the fact: building on a grid after over 100 years of skyscrapers and you have a finite set of basic designs.
    You can't have thought that statement through. It sounds like you feel like everything's been done and there's no room for creativity. That can't be true.

  13. #1798

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    If that were the case, then the entire New York skyscraper body would be glass boxes. I have no problem with glass. It's shiny, it's energy-efficient, but in terms of design, there's always a time and place for it. I vote on a redesign of this building.

  14. #1799

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    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    The bottom line is that NY is becoming uglier and more pathetic as each day passes. The latest tragedy is 120 W 57th soon to be followed by the demolition of the 57th Street townhouses. NY is a sewer.
    The only way to amend that is a blanket landmark of anything pre-WWII. This would allow pre-war buildings to be razed after review, but if the city doesn't want to go to crap it'll need to sharpen its defenses against pre-war architecture being ravaged. I know this will happen at some point; I fear it won't happen until most of what's left is razed.

  15. #1800
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbhstockton View Post
    You can't have thought that statement through. It sounds like you feel like everything's been done and there's no room for creativity. That can't be true.
    Go reread it, I didn't say ^. Basic design limits what can be done, that's the truth. Some people here start calling NY a "sewer" and such in this thread for this building! It's going too far.

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