View Poll Results: Hotel Pennsylvania should be replaced with the proposed office building

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  • Yes

    76 44.97%
  • No

    93 55.03%
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Thread: Hotel Pennsylvania - by McKim Mead & White - to be replaced by 15 Penn Plaza

  1. #196

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    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    The could raze 50 W 57th. I hope not. It's a nice building. I desperately want to see 52, 54 and 56 W57th razed and developed. Does anyone know if the two buildings (52 and 56) and the lot in the middle are owned by different entities?
    we have discussed this on another forum and i had written,
    that when Steve bought 50 West 57th from Harry that he might be having a larger plan to assemble that together with 52,54,& 56 along with the vacant land on 56th Street

  2. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffpark View Post
    we have discussed this on another forum and i had written,
    that when Steve bought 50 West 57th from Harry that he might be having a larger plan to assemble that together with 52,54,& 56 along with the vacant land on 56th Street
    But who owns those other three parcels?

  3. #198

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    Observer

    Doomed Hotel Penn Sends Other Lodges Scrambling for Doggie Style
    To all the snowbound hounds that received a few extra hours of pampering at the all-too-pooch-friendly Hotel Pennsylvania last week: Lap it up, bitches.




    My room, please (and don’t tarry!): A Westminster competitor is spirited into the Hotel Pennsylvania.


    By Chris Shott

    This year’s Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show was likely your last chance to romp around the wood-chip-covered “Green Room.” Or to leave your own personal mark on the bleach-stained carpets that line the loathsome two-star hotel’s hallways—or, better yet, on hotel flack turned “doggie concierge” Jerry Grymek’s pant leg.

    The landmark hotel, which every year reserves its best service strictly for four-legged guests, may be history even before next year’s show.

    A report last month by brokerage Grubb & Ellis indicated that Vornado Realty Trust, which owns the longstanding hotel site, plans to demolish the swing-era monument and erect an enormous office tower in its place. No pets allowed!

    Vornado has been unabashedly unimpressed by the dog show’s unofficial host hotel for years, likening the building in a company report to “a placeholder, sort of like a parking lot”—which might help to explain the staff’s longstanding no-fear policy when it comes to fur balls.

    One senior researcher at Grubb & Ellis—who noted that the hotel scoop came straight from the mouths of boastful Vornado execs—told The Observer that demolition would probably begin within the next 12 months in order to meet the developer’s stated goal of constructing the new office tower by 2011.

    Dog-show spokesman David Frei downplayed the much-maligned hotel’s demise as a subject of frequent speculation, but some pooch-pageant-goers who also heard the news were already making post–Hotel Penn–era preparations even before this year’s dog show had ended.

    Tara Williams, revenue manager at the nearby Radisson Martinique on Broadway, said the rival hotel’s shuttering was on the lips of several guests with pets last week. The hubbub even stirred up some rather early room-booking buzz.

    “A lot of our dog-show people were kind of panicking about making their reservations for next year,” said Ms. Williams, whose own facility tried to lure dog-show-goers away from Hotel Penn with promises of a makeshift dog-run downstairs and a “barkfest breakfast buffet” for both pups and people.

    “Usually, they start booking in the summertime,” said Ms. Williams. “But a lot of them said they would be starting in the next month or so.”

    The rush to reserve is understandable. Shuttering the overly pet-friendly Hotel Penn will create a significant shortage in kennel-club-worthy rooms citywide, given the more than 1,000 dogs that reportedly roamed the 1,700-room venue this year.

    “A lot of hotels in the area, they don’t take dogs,” Ms. Williams noted, “so it becomes a problem for people who come from out of town.”


    In fact, only 12 of the 19 hotels recommended on Westminster’s Web site even allow dogs—make that 11 of 18 if you take away the Hotel Penn. (The other seven suggested are presumably for mere spectators.) And three of those so-called dog-friendly venues will only accept pooches up to a certain size. The Park Lane, for instance, won’t shelter pets larger than 10 pounds; Springer spaniels like “Best in Show” winner Felicity’s Diamond Jim would be left out in the cold.

    None of the others are as big or as conveniently located as the Pennsylvania, which sits just across the street from the dog show’s home for decades, Madison Square Garden.

    Even doubling up, those 1,000 displaced dogs would utterly overwhelm the nearby 532-room Radisson, located a mere block away along West 34th Street; it hosted a comparatively minor 200 or so dogs last week.

    “I’m assuming we’ll have more groups next year,” Ms. Williams said—and hopefully, a much larger dog-run.

  4. #199
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    if they want this tower opened by 2011, they better start demolition next week, this may take a year to demolish this hotel alone

  5. #200

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    Quote Originally Posted by kliq6 View Post
    if they want this tower opened by 2011, they better start demolition next week, this may take a year to demolish this hotel alone

    Perhaps, perhaps not.

  6. #201

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    I prefer saving the Hotel Penn, but I know that it will be razed. Consequently, I hope that a 750 box will not be constructed on this site. Because the site's footprint is so huge, an enormous amount of square footage could be contained in the trading floor base resulting in a smallish tower overall.

  7. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    I prefer saving the Hotel Penn, but I know that it will be razed. Consequently, I hope that a 750 box will not be constructed on this site. Because the site's footprint is so huge, an enormous amount of square footage could be contained in the trading floor base resulting in a smallish tower overall.
    There will be a half million square feet of trading floors topped by a 2 msf office tower.

  8. #203

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
    There will be a half million square feet of trading floors topped by a 2 msf office tower.
    I figured something to that effect. If the trading floor base is about 100 feet high, couldn't the 2 m sf tower be short and stubby? For example, how tall is the CBIC building on 42nd and Madison?

    I hope that Lehman opts for a masterpiece, but I don't want to get my hopes up. Also, do you know how many sf the Bear Stearns tower has?

  9. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    If the trading floor base is about 100 feet high, couldn't the 2 m sf tower be short and stubby? For example, how tall is the CBIC building on 42nd and Madison?
    Not very tall, but it's not 2msf either. Look at the BofA and Goldman towers for comparison (though those towers are about a half msf smaller). There will be zoning and setback issues for this site. I would start heights at 900 ft and up...

  10. #205

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
    Not very tall, but it's not 2msf either. Look at the BofA and Goldman towers for comparison (though those towers are about a half msf smaller). There will be zoning and setback issues for this site. I would start heights at 900 ft and up...
    I hope so!

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
    Not very tall, but it's not 2msf either. Look at the BofA and Goldman towers for comparison (though those towers are about a half msf smaller). There will be zoning and setback issues for this site. I would start heights at 900 ft and up...
    CIBC is like 1.2 million sf but there are no trading floors, what was to be the trading floors are now meeting rooms for Pricewaterhouse.

    FYI
    Goldman is 1.9 million and BOA is 2.1 miliion sf

  12. #207

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    I visited NYC last weekend. Many of the art deco classics that once defined NYC are slowly but surely being replaced by bland forgettable boxes. Heast is one exception as well as the newer buildings in the meatpacking district, although the ones in the meatpacking district are very short.

    I hate to think that you have to be square to be in NYC these days.

  13. #208

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    DealBreaker.com

    Trading Spaces

    The last time we checked, the only reason to be envious of Lloyd Blankfein’s henchmen was because some of them were getting upwards of $100 mm in bonuses (and because B-fein had carried on a tradition instituted during the Paulson era wherein on Tuesdays and every first and third Friday of the month, the girls are on Goldman).

    According to the WSJ, however, there’s a new motivation for keying doctored league tables into the Goldies’ cars: trading floor envy. The Masters of the Universe are in the midst of erecting a “gleaming new building in lower Manhattan that will feature six gigantic state-of-the-art hangar-size trading floors (72,000 square feet each, with room for more than 900 traders on each floor)” and a Jamba Juice. If you’re the sort of person who’s made jealous by that sort of thing, you’re not alone—the top BB-banks are going to great—desperate, sad, whatever—lengths to keep up with the Goldmans. Let’s take a look at the competition.


    Lehman Brothers Holdings:

    Mulling over a deal with Vornado to build a HQ and trading floors where the Hotel Pennsylvania on Seventh Avenue still stands, i.e. Penn Station/MSG adjacent. Good for those commuting into the city on the Midtown Direct already/can’t resist Auntie Anne’s. Bad for anyone under 40/more importantly, those with an aversion to the types of people who ride the LIRR (read: anyone who doesn’t ride the LIRR and even some of those who do. Self-loathing. You know how it is).


    Merrill Lynch & Co.:

    Also considering the Hotel Pennsylvania site, in addition to the new WTC area currently under construction. Lease is up in 2013. The clock is ticking.


    J.P. Morgan Chase & Co.:

    Talks with the Port Authority are “progressing but not a done deal yet.” The only thing we know about the Port Authority is that it’s a good place to pick up hookers…and with our analyst and associate attrition…you do the math.


    Morgan Stanley

    Has “talked with several landlords about spaces large enough for improved trading facilities, though its plans are unclear.” A spokesperson for Morgan declined to comment though we’ve heard that Robert Kindler will only entertain the possibility of venues large enough to host the Mergers and Acquisitions book party.

  14. #209

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    Very interesting NYGuy...I had heard of the Lehman Penn Plaza potential (saw the new Vornado models last week) but had not put it into context with the new Goldman Tower on the West Side highway. Thanks

  15. #210

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    Could you tell us about these models?

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