View Poll Results: Hotel Pennsylvania should be replaced with the proposed office building

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  • Yes

    76 44.97%
  • No

    93 55.03%
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Thread: Hotel Pennsylvania - by McKim Mead & White - to be replaced by 15 Penn Plaza

  1. #706

    Default pelli tower in transbay is a copy cat design

    Well, if all they are going to do with a signature building like this is copy an Asian skyscraper, I say don't pick Pelli. San Francisco's design might be OK for a city that doesn't really depend on its skyline for its attractiveness, but New York needs to create an original building here.

  2. #707


    A gorgeous RRogers tower would be perfect.

  3. #708


    I'll take a Norman Foster please.

    I know Foster has a role in the Penn Station redevelopment, and I would not mind if he crossed 7th Avenue.

  4. #709
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    in Limbo


    And in the end, probably end up getting David Childs and SOM instead.

  5. #710


    I doubt that Merrill is going here now, and therefore, nothing will happen to this hotel for a long time. Vornado would be better off redeveloping the dumpy parcels in this area to start its revival.

  6. #711


    Why do you doubt the Merrill plans, and why would Vornado be "better off" first redeveloping its much smaller, less valuable sites?

  7. #712
    Forum Veteran Tectonic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    New York City


    Quote Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
    And in the end, probably end up getting David Childs and SOM instead.
    Please no! the 80s are over and done. Investordude do you mean Two Intl Finance Center in Hong Kong?

    If so I always felt like that building belonged at the center of our financial district. LOL.
    Last edited by Tectonic; November 15th, 2007 at 01:02 AM.

  8. #713

    Default thain seems more spendthrift to me - I think Merrill will balk

    Aschwartz, if you read on the proposals of Thain and his protoge that's taking over at NYSE, they seem fairly cost conscious to me. I maintain that a unified trading floor is a luxury status symbol that is of limited important relative to the proposed price tag and Merrill will bail at least until they are clear on their liabilities.

  9. #714


    I don't think Merrill would move to Midtown unless they thought it would be beneficial for the firm's bottom line. Clearly the board (or elements of the board) think a Midtown move is an investment in the firm's future.

    Cost conscious does not mean being cheap and then harming the firm's long-term future. How can the world's largest trading firm not have a modern, integrated trading floor? That's just crazy. Neither downtown site would give it a trading floor comparable to that of Goldman Sachs.

    Of course, I have no insider knowledge. Just speculating based on news reports. More than one said they were just waiting for the announcement of a new CEO before making an announcement on the future headquarters. I guess we'll wait and see...

  10. #715
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    NYC - Downtown


    Those huge trading floors that are now all the rage will be dinosaurs within 10 years.

  11. #716
    Random Personality
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Woodside, Queens


    To ASchwarz: The problem with your statement is that the idea of moving to midtown was before it was divulged the information that Merrill had to write off billions.

    Surely Vornado could build a speculative building, but judging from the fact they have not done so in the past I doubt they would do so now and if they do find a tenant it will most likely not be Merrill.
    Last edited by ramvid01; November 15th, 2007 at 01:51 AM. Reason: Thanks for cutting me off lofter :P

  12. #717
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    East Midtown


    Lofter has made a good point about changing technology.

  13. #718

    Default i agree - plus Thain may just sell Merrill outright

    Let's not forget that Thain's signature accomplishment at NYSE was to sell the company to EuroNext. The brand NYSE may be more important, but the reality is NYSE is largely a European company now - Cramer talked about that on Stop Trading today and I think he's right.

    Fortunately/unfortunately, Ross has a huge ego and will continue to push for this building, so if it doesn't get landmarked, it will get built with another tenant willing to waste money for status (I wager this becomes a Rupert Murdock trophy once he loses the Hudson Yards bid)

  14. #719


    Hotel Pennsylvania Settles Bedbug Suits for Nearly $100,000

    by Chris Shott Published: November 14, 2007

    Associated Press.

    Vornado-owned Hotel Pennsylvania has agreed to pay nearly $100,000, court records show, to a group of six tourists who claimed to have been bitten by bedbugs while staying at the old Seventh Avenue lodge.

    The alleged victims included two Swiss women reportedly "eaten alive" by the nocturnal blood-sucking insects in 2005.

    The victims' attorney, Adam Sattler, called the amount of the settlement "satisfactory," adding that the hotel has since taken steps to better prevent the pests from infiltrating rooms and attacking other guests.

    The 22-story, McKim, Mead & White-designed building, erected in 1919, has been the subject of much debate lately. Vornado has threatened to demolish the hotel and erect a giant office tower in its place, while activists have campaigned to preserve it.

    Perhaps best-known as the inspiration for the old Glenn Miller tune, "Pennsylvania 6-5000," the less-than-luxurious state of the once glamorous Hotel Penn was perhaps best described by comic Dave Barry in his 2002 Miami Herald column, "Hotel, schmotel -- I'll just shtay in the shtreet."

    The New York Observer.

  15. #720


    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    Those huge trading floors that are now all the rage will be dinosaurs within 10 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post
    Lofter has made a good point about changing technology.
    I asked this on another thread: How big do trading floors have to be for maximum efficiency, and is the trend due to technology downward. They were talking 80,000 sq ft for this site.

    On another note, interesting that Related is realizing a $30 million profit on a bedbug-ridden hotel.


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