View Poll Results: Hotel Pennsylvania should be replaced with the proposed office building

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  • Yes

    76 44.97%
  • No

    93 55.03%
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Thread: Hotel Pennsylvania - by McKim Mead & White - to be replaced by 15 Penn Plaza

  1. #781

    Default why?

    I don't understand the love for Ross. My guess is Vornado doesn't have that much of a need to build a statement so much as he does to build a building. It will probably end up making a statement by sheer virtue of its heft, and I doubt he'll go out of his way to make it ugly.

    But if we're expecting another Jean Nouvel masterpiece, I think disappointment lies ahead. The district is slightly downmarket, and the building will probably reflect that.

  2. #782

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    Quote Originally Posted by alonzo-ny View Post
    The difference is Goldman developed their own building where as we have vornado here and its in their interest to build a statement.
    I disagree.

    Even in a spec building, the interest is to build accommodating floor space. In today's market, that's a fat building with an even fatter base.

    Hearst developed their own building, and they made a statement. Owner-statement examples abound.

    Chrysler
    Woolworth

  3. #783
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    I think Roth's developments in NYC are on the better side.

  4. #784

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    I disagree.

    Even in a spec building, the interest is to build accommodating floor space. In today's market, that's a fat building with an even fatter base.

    Hearst developed their own building, and they made a statement. Owner-statement examples abound.

    Chrysler
    Woolworth
    There are examples of both, unfortunately the ones you mention are from a different era.

  5. #785
    Forum Veteran TREPYE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by investordude View Post
    and I doubt he'll go out of his way to make it ugly.
    No developer goes out of his way to make it ugly. They just rely on accountant aesthetics to produce the design. Thats why you end up with crap like 7 TS, 300 Madison Avenue, Lehman Bros Building (TS), and half-ass work like TWC and the Bloomy tower.

    I have a bad feeling that the same is gonna happen hereonly worse cuz a building designed by architect cognizant of appeal and contextualism is gonna be replaced by a building designed by an accountant.

  6. #786
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    Default

    i.e. SOM

  7. #787

    Default preservationists bait and switch

    I think there view should be discarded given the late decision to raise the topic with landmarks, but one of the preservationist groups has decided to bother Vornado now that they are serious about knocking down the hotel: http://www.cityrealty.com/new_develo...r?noteid=21402

    I find it weird that they chose to raise the subject of jobs. Not only is that something landmarks isn't allowed to consider, but any sober minded analysis of economics would conclude a 3 million square foot anchor for a major office district will create more jobs than the hotel.

    Still, I'm OK with landmarking if they give Vornado extra square feet so they can build an even more spectacular structure on other property they own.

  8. #788
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    has decided to bother Vornado
    that's precious.

  9. #789
    Kings County Loyal BrooklynLove's Avatar
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    if they knock that place down there is going to be a serious run on rat and roach housing in midtown. one of the all time disgustingest large scale hotels i've personally experienced in my life.

  10. #790

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    Quote Originally Posted by investordude View Post
    I think there view should be discarded given the late decision to raise the topic with landmarks...
    But isn't it always too late? The public only squawks after intent to demolish is announced.

    Could you say the landmarking process has structural problems?

  11. #791

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    http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pb...10009/1058/toc

    Merrill's new CEO rethinks relocation

    Theresa Agovino

    Published: December 10, 2007

    As John Thain takes the helm at Merrill Lynch, he is re-examining what was a foregone conclusion: that the investment bank would move its downtown headquarters to the site of the Hotel Pennsylvania in midtown.

    Sources say the decision is on hold indefinitely as Mr. Thain, who just completed his first week as Merrill's chief executive, considers all alternatives.

    One possibility is extending Merrill's lease at the World Financial Center for five years, to 2018. That would take some pressure off the firm, which has 3 million square feet at the location.

    Because of his past professional connections to lower Manhattan, Mr. Thain might be more inclined to keep Merrill downtown than former Merrill CEO Stanley O'Neal was.

    Robert Douglass, chairman of the Alliance for Downtown New York, sent Mr. Thain a letter last week encouraging him to remain in the financial district. Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver spoke with Mr. Thain recently to persuade him to stay downtown and hopes to meet with him soon.

    If sentiment doesn't sway Mr. Thain, Merrill's finances might. Merrill recently reported its first quarterly loss in six years and wrote down the value of its subprime-related securities by $8 billion, which observers believe might make Mr. Thain wary of undertaking a pricey move uptown. More write-downs are possible. Published reports say relocating to midtown would cost $1 billion more than remaining in lower Manhattan.

    A source close to the negotiations says Merrill is looking to its long-term future. The firm is eager to have large trading floors at its headquarters and wants to control the building rather than just be a tenant that must deal with landlords about how the property is run.

    Moving to the Hotel Pennsylvania site would come closest to accomplishing those goals. Owner Vornado Realty Trust has offered to demolish the hotel and give Merrill a long-term lease on the site--essentially like owning it. The site would give Merrill the opportunity to have the trading floors it desires.

    Brookfield Properties, Merrill's current landlord, has offered to create three 80,000-square-foot trading floors by expanding one of the World Financial Center buildings. Brookfield's bid is the lowest by several hundred million dollars, according to a source.

    Additionally, Larry Silverstein, who is building Tower 3, has offered to adjust the architectural plans to meet Merrill's needs.

    One insider doesn't expect any of the three contenders to sweeten their offers.

  12. #792
    Jersey Patriot JCMAN320's Avatar
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    Well atleast the Penn is on borrowed time for now. Hopefully Merril comes up with a better location in Midtown; maybe over the Hudson Railyards?

  13. #793
    Kings County Loyal BrooklynLove's Avatar
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    maybe he can swing a deal for goldman's old space at 85 broad following their move to the new battery park city buidling. those are his old peoples after all. either way, i think it highly likely that merrill stays downtown. or maybe they can get a sweetheart deal in the downtown bk commercial expansion

  14. #794

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCMAN320 View Post
    Well atleast the Penn is on borrowed time for now. Hopefully Merril comes up with a better location in Midtown; maybe over the Hudson Railyards?
    I dont think they will want to bet on something that is so uncertain at this point. and so far from completion.

  15. #795

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    ^
    I agree, but there's an interesting situation concerning Brookfield.

    As WFC landlord, Brookfield would want ML to stay, but if they thought they would lose ML to the Penn Hotel site or WTC, they might try to get them as an anchor at Hudson Yards. Even though it would just be moving an existing tenant, it would correct one flaw in Brookfield's Hudson Yards bid - no anchor tenant. And they could extend the ML lease at the WFC until the move.

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