View Poll Results: Hotel Pennsylvania should be replaced with the proposed office building

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  • Yes

    76 44.97%
  • No

    93 55.03%
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Thread: Hotel Pennsylvania - by McKim Mead & White - to be replaced by 15 Penn Plaza

  1. #1216

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    ^ So depressing. Well, I imagine this one won't go without a fight... Maybe the politicians -- knowing they're vulnerable and under fire from most voters for being pawns of big-time developers like Steve Roth -- will be able to work out a compromise, like keeping the exterior (as Derek proposed earlier) or landmarking the Hotel and brokering a deal for Vornado to transfer the rights to, e.g., MSG and build there.

  2. #1217

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
    ... Better a vulva than a box....
    Hilarious!

    I tend to believe that Vornado has a tenant lined up. A lot of leases are expiring, and some entity might want to anchor a new tower.

    Moreover, by the time this is built, the economy will be fine.

    Nevertheless, if Vornado hopes to improve this area, they need to raze the crap on the adjacent block to the north. This is too much of a contrast between upscale and third-world.




  3. #1218
    Forum Veteran Tectonic's Avatar
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    ^ Agreed. Why would a quality hotel been good for the area too? I say improve Hotel Penn and build on that block just north.

  4. #1219

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    I wouldn't mind seeing the Hotel Penn Razed, AS LONG as I can be ASSURED that it will be replaced by the building shown in the renderings, and not become another 57th and Park.

  5. #1220

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    By the way, how tall would the as of right tower be?

  6. #1221
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    According to info on this page at DOB for Hotel Penn (401 Seventh Avenue) the lot is 400' x 197.06' = 78,824 sf.

    The lot sits on two different zoning districts (Zoning MAP [pdf]; image below) and looks as if the property is split fairly evenly @ 50/50 between the two, both of which are considered "high density" districts:

    C6-6 - GENERAL CENTRAL COMMERCIAL DISTRICT (~ 39,412 sf)

    C6-4.5 - RESTRICTED CENTRAL COMMERCIAL DISTRICT (~ 39,412 sf)

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #1222

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    Here is a building in Toronto that is grafted to the back of another. It seems like the same could be done with this hotel.





  8. #1223
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Default Hotel Penn DEIS

    Vornado proposes to re-zone the entire block (Sixth <> Seventh / 32nd <> 33rd) so that it is all C6-6 and use the extra FAR only on the east end (the Hotel Penn site) ...

    A little something from City Planning to peruse on a snowy day (includes lots of pictures and diagrams and charts):

    DEIS 15 Penn Plaza (Hotel Penn site) February 2010 [pdf]

    A. INTRODUCTION

    The applicants, 401 Commercial LP and 401 Hotel REIT LLC, propose to redevelop the current site of the Hotel Pennsylvania (Block 808, Lots 1001 and 1002, or the “development site”) on Seventh Avenue between West 32nd and West 33rd Streets adjacent to Penn Station in Manhattan with a new commercial office building—a redevelopment project known as 15 Penn Plaza. To provide the applicants with the flexibility to respond to market conditions, two options are proposed—a Single-Tenant Office Scenario and a Multi-Tenant Office Scenario. Both scenarios would consist of a new commercial office tower located above a podium base suitable for trading uses and new below-grade mass transit improvements. The Multi-Tenant Office Scenario would also accommodate retail uses in the podium base.

    In order to develop this proposed project (either scenario), certain discretionary approvals are required from the New York City Planning Commission (CPC). Thus, the proposed project is subject to environmental review under the State Environmental Quality Review (SEQR) and City Environmental Quality Review (CEQR) regulations and guidelines. The New York City Department of City Planning (DCP) will act as the CEQR lead agency for this proposal. Approvals from the Metropolitan Transportation Authority-New York City Transit (NYCT), Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ), and Amtrak are required for the design and maintenance of the below-grade mass transit improvements. In addition, subsurface easements may be requested from Amtrak for building support columns.
    The proposed project is expected to have an approximately 4-1⁄2 year construction period and be complete in 2014.

    Absent approval of the proposed project, the applicant would develop an as-of-right project (or No Action building), of approximately 1.15 million zoning square feet (zsf) on the development site. This building could be built without any discretionary approvals (see Chapter 2, “Procedural and Analytical Framework”).

    *

    D. PROPOSED ACTIONS (Page 1-6)

    The actions necessary to facilitate development of the proposed project (either scenario) are as follows:

    ZONING MAP AMENDMENT (ULURP NO. 100047ZMM)

    • Zoning map amendment to rezone a C6-4.5 (MiD) zoning district to a C6-6 (MiD) zoning district (see Figures 1-18 and 1-19). As shown in Figure 1-18, the rezoning area consists of the midblock area of the project site and would apply to the eastern half of the development site and the western portion of the Manhattan Mall site. Specifically, the rezoning area would cover the portion of the project site 200 feet east of Seventh Avenue to 150 west of Sixth Avenue. Figure 1-19 shows the proposed zoning.

    C6 commercial districts permit a wide range of high-density commercial uses requiring a central location, such as corporate headquarters, large hotels, entertainment facilities, retail stores, and high-rise residences.

    The C6-4.5 district is mapped only within the Special Midtown District. Commercial and community facility development is permitted to a maximum floor area ratio (FAR) of 12.0 (14.4 with a subway and rail mass transit improvement bonus), and residential development is permitted to 12.0 FAR. Within C6-6 commercial districts, commercial and community facility development is permitted to 15.0 FAR (18.0 FAR with a subway and rail mass transit improvement bonus), and residential development is permitted to a maximum FAR of 12.0.

    While the proposed rezoning would apply to portions of both the development site and the Manhattan Mall site, the additional floor area generated by the rezoning (270,000 zsf) would be used in the development of the proposed project (either scenario) on the development site. No changes to the Manhattan Mall would occur, and no redevelopment of the Manhattan Mall site is proposed.

    The proposed uses for the project (both scenarios) are permitted under existing zoning; there would be no change in permitted use with the proposed rezoning.

  9. #1224
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    More:

    C. PROJECT PROGRAM AND DESIGN

    SINGLE-TENANT OFFICE SCENARIO
    (Page 1-2)

    The Single-Tenant Office Scenario would consist of a commercial office building of approximately 2.83 gsf (2.05 million zsf), with floorplates in the podium of a sufficient size to accommodate trading operations. When complete, The Single-Tenant Office Scenario would include approximately 1.53 million gsf of office space; five floors within the building’s podium base that would accommodate trading floor use totaling 340,857 gsf; 18,266 gsf of retail use fronting on Seventh Avenue and on West 32nd and 33rd Streets; 509,071 gsf of building amenity, lobby, and service and loading area space; and approximately 418,395 gsf of mechanical space. A portion of the below-grade service area would potentially include 100 below-grade accessory parking spaces.

    Along West 32nd and West 33rd Streets, the building would be set back 10 feet from the property line. Along Seventh Avenue, the building would be set back 15 feet from the property line. The main entrances to the office and trading floor use would be on Seventh Avenue with secondary entrances on both West 32nd and West 33rd Streets (see Figure 1-4). The interior retail uses as dimensioned, the pedestrian circulation spaces, and the subway entrances are part of the approvals; other interior spaces are shown for illustrative purposes only. The first 10 floors of the proposed building, including the mezzanine floor, would rise to a height of approximately 218 feet. Above this, the tower portion of the building would be set back and oriented along Seventh Avenue before rising to a total height of approximately 1,130 feet. A screen that would obscure the rooftop mechanical systems would rise an additional 60 feet above the roof level to a total height of approximately 1,190 feet (see Figure 1-5). As currently contemplated, the building would be primarily faced with steel and glass curtain walls with darker, closely spaced vertical metal components and highly transparent cladding at the base level retail (see Figures 1-6 and 1-7). The Single-Tenant Office Scenario does not include signage of the type allowed within the Penn Center Subdistrict. Figure 1-8 provides an aerial view of this scenario from the north.

  10. #1225
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    it's ok, but given the decent height a phoned in pelli is lost opportunity to do something more striking.

  11. #1226

  12. #1227
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    DCP mandated (Chapter 1, final page and in this DCP Notice) a Restrictive Declaration (similar to what was included in the MoMA / Hines / Nouvel Tower Verre plan) stating that approvals apply only if ...


    ... such building shall be constructed substantially in accordance with the locations, dimensions and specifications as shown on the approved drawings for the selected building configuration.
    F. RESTRICTIVE DECLARATION

    Prior to approval of the special permit, the applicants will execute a Restrictive Declaration setting forth the obligations of the applicant with respect to construction and capital maintenance of the transit improvements in order utilize the requested transit improvement floor area bonus.The Restrictive Declaration will also incorporate commitments to implement sustainability measures, implement building attenuation measures to ensure that CEQR interior noise criteria are met, implement construction period air quality and noise control measures, undertake Historic American Building Survey (HABS) Level II documentation prior to the Hotel Pennsylvania’s demolition, conduct sampling as required by the New York City Department of Environmental Protection (NYCDEP) and undertake any subsequent measures that may be required by NYCDEP to address potential contamination at the development site, as well as commitments to any measures that may be identified in consultation with the New York City Department of Parks and Recreation to mitigate open space impacts. The restrictive declaration will also provide that prior to applying for a building permit, the applicants will elect one of the two building configurations (either the Single-Tenant Office Scenario or the Multi-Tenant Office Scenario) and notify the CPC in writing of its election. DCP will send the written notification of such election to the New York City Department of Buildings and such building shall be constructed substantially in accordance with the locations, dimensions and specifications as shown on the approved drawings for the selected building configuration.

  13. #1228
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    The photo from the Observer:


  14. #1229

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    This thing merits tearing down a fine existing structure,
    and sharing sky with (and a lot closer to), the Empire State building...and Tower Verre Doesn't?
    The top looks a lot like Piano's Times building- only cinched up.

  15. #1230
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Screen grab from the pdf ...

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