View Poll Results: Hotel Pennsylvania should be replaced with the proposed office building

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  • Yes

    76 44.97%
  • No

    93 55.03%
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Thread: Hotel Pennsylvania - by McKim Mead & White - to be replaced by 15 Penn Plaza

  1. #1231

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    I'm hoping they'll get the necessary approvals for this tower, the city wouldn't want to let down an opportunity for thousands of new and saved construction jobs. But this could turn into a nimbyfest if just a few people come out against it. In the end though, it may just come down to whoever has money in whoever's pockets.

  2. #1232
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    There are very few residential units in the immediate vicinity -- so, to a large extent, that will disempower NIMBY's and others who might come out against this plan.

    The Hotel Penn building has no protections, despite (numerous / failed) attempts to have it Landmarked -- which is an indication in itself that this project has the backing of the powers that be.

  3. #1233

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    If there's any project I hope does become a "nimbyfest," it's this. And given that it's unlikely to be built any time soon, I'm not sure how much we can count on any jobs.

  4. #1234

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    Well, LA, which isn't exactly trigger-happy with regard to preservation, just decided to preserve a less-than-gorgeous 1966 hotel that had been slated for demo as part of a new high-rise development. The developer will built around the hotel but must preserve it.

    Seems like a precedent New York could follow with the much more historic (and better-looking) Hotel Penn...

    Deal reached to save Los Angeles' mid-century Century Plaza Hotel from wrecking ball (LA Times article)

  5. #1235

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    I finally dug into the DEIS posted by Lofter, from which these quotes and proposal images are taken.

    Single-Tennant Proposal:

    Along West 32nd and West 33rd Streets, the building would be set back 10 feet from the property line. Along Seventh Avenue, the building would be set back 15 feet from the property line.

    The first 10 floors of the proposed building, including the mezzanine floor, would rise to a height of approximately 218 feet. Above this, the tower portion of the building would be set back and oriented along Seventh Avenue before rising to a total height of approximately 1,130 feet. A screen that would obscure the rooftop mechanical systems would rise an additional 60 feet above the roof level to a total height of approximately 1,190 feet.
    *****

    Multi-Tennant Proposal:

    Along West 32nd and 33rd Streets, the building would be set back seven feet from the property
    line. Along Seventh Avenue, the building would be set back 15 feet from the property line.

    ...the podium would rise to a height of approximately 130 feet. The office tower would rise from the podium’s center and would be set back approximately 73 feet from the podium’s Seventh Avenue frontage, approximately 95 feet from the podium’s east end, and seven feet from the north and south property lines at West 32nd and West 33rd Streets. The office tower would rise to a height of approximately 1,156 feet, and a screen that would obscure the rooftop mechanical systems would rise an additional 60 feet above the roof level, for a total height of approximately 1,216 feet.
    *****

    In neither the single nor multi-tennant proposals is there any deference shown to the existing street-wall cornice-line along Seventh, though the Single-Tennant straight-up tower is a far better neighbor in this regard.


    NYGuy

    The modification of height and setback regulations is needed to facilitate the design of the proposed project, which seeks to develop modern Class A commercial office space in a central Manhattan location that is well served by existing transit services.

    The modification of the design standards for pedestrian circulation space and retail continuity are necessary to enhance pedestrian circulation around the development site, particularly during peak periods as transit patrons enter and exit Penn Station and the Herald Square subway station. Specifically, the modification of the design standards for pedestrian circulation space is required to permit a sidewalk widening greater than 10 feet and to allow the proposed sidewalk widening on West 32nd and West 33rd Streets to not extend for the full frontage of the zoning lot as required. As shown on Figures 1-4 and 1-9, the proposed project would widen the Seventh Avenue sidewalk to 15 feet. The modification of the retail continuity requirements would permit the storefronts of the proposed project to be set back more than 10 feet from the Seventh Avenue street line to accommodate pedestrian flow.

    The special permit pursuant to ZR section 81-45 is requested because the proposed project would not provide a minimum of 50 percent of the required pedestrian circulation space on a wide street. However since the proposed sidewalk widening of 15 feet already exceeds the maximum permitted width of 10 feet, there is no way to provide greater pedestrian circulation space without requiring a further waiver of ZR section 37-53(f).

    The special permit pursuant to ZR section 81-47 is requested because the proposed project would widen the sidewalk by greater than 10 feet. As noted above, this widening is necessary to enhance pedestrian circulation.

    The modification of street wall continuity requirements is needed to permit the building entrance to exceed 40 feet or 25 percent of the proposed building’s Seventh Avenue street frontage. As shown in Figures 1-4 and 1-9 the proposed building entrance on Seventh Avenue would be 57 feet wide. This modification would provide a lobby of sufficient size and arrangement to meet the circulation and security requirements of an office building with up to 10,000 employees.
    Maybe I'm sentimental, but it seems like at the very least a reference to the McM&W colonnaded portico would be nice...





    *****

    One Canada Square, Canary Wharf, London. César Pelli (1988-1991)


    by MattJwhite

  6. #1236
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    They should keep the front wing and build up and behind!

    Any other place with a regard for history and architecture would ensure that's what happens on this site.

    How many more of these things do we have to lose?!!! This is 2010! The landmark preservation people are a joke. I hate them for pretending to be what they aren't.

    This will be another tragedy.
    Last edited by MidtownGuy; February 11th, 2010 at 05:02 PM.

  7. #1237

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    The proposed project is expected to have an approximately 4-½ year construction period and be complete in 2014.
    ha






    Vornado also has a 1250' tower planned across the street next to 1 Penn Plaza.

  8. #1238

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    Why do so many people pretend that Cesar Pelli is anything but a tired hack? This design looks like any piece of glass, anywhere (and most especially those called Hong Kong World Financial Center or San Francisco Transbay Tower).

  9. #1239

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post
    They should keep the front wing and build up and behind!

    Any other place with a regard for history and architecture would ensure that's what happens on this site.

    How many more of these things do we have to lose?!!! This is 2010! The landmark preservation people are a joke. I hate them for pretending to be what they aren't.

    This will be another tragedy.
    I agree, MTG. The LPC is BS.

  10. #1240

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stroika View Post
    Why do so many people pretend that Cesar Pelli is anything but a tired hack? This design looks like any piece of glass, anywhere (and most especially those called Hong Kong World Financial Center or San Francisco Transbay Tower).
    Jersey City's got one too.

  11. #1241

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    In the 1980's KPF and Pelli had real talent and originality and produced some Post Modern gems. Today KPF and Pelli hash out the same designs and they all suck.

    Here's another one of the cheesy clones, 4 First Union in Charlotte, designed by KPF, take off the crown and its an exact replica of the Hotel Penn Tower.

  12. #1242

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    I'm usually against destroying old beauties for squat glass POS buildings but I honestly don't mind Hotel Pennsylvania destroyed if this tower will be built. Yea, I know..it would make more sense if Vornado demolished one of their other properties in the area and put this office buildng on another site but it won't happen. No sense of wasting my breath and tears regarding something that will never happen.

    To me, the sprucing up of the tired midtown skyline is far more important than the street level of this dumpy part of town that I can't even recall the last time I've been through. Years perhaps. And I don't find Hotel Pennsylvania too remarkable at all, sorry.

    The midtown skyline desperately needs a tall building for a change. More modern buildings to "brighten" its relative drabness. Please build it.

  13. #1243

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    Quote Originally Posted by JFK-CDG View Post
    this dumpy part of town that I can't even recall the last time i've been through. Years perhaps.
    Yeah, the area is completely desolate. Hardly anyone goes there.

  14. #1244

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    Yeah, the area is completely desolate. Hardly anyone goes there.
    It's very busy. It's also unattractive and low-rent. Nothing beautiful about it. The skyline is more important to me than this smelly stretch of town.

    Perhaps this tower will transform it. Help the skyline and clean up that dump (i.e. hopefully driving up the value and pushing out the low-rent retail). Win win situation.

  15. #1245

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    You mean like GS "transformed" desolate West St?

    I remember you like that one too. Putting up something big and glassy doesn't automatically correct problems.

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