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Thread: 7 Train Extension

  1. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramvid01 View Post
    Well when they added the 63rd street tunnel did they not widen the tunnel just before queensboro plaza to accomodate the entrance and exit to the tunnel?
    Not the same logistics.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/63rd_Street_Tunnel

  2. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by investordude View Post
    Why aren't they using cut and cover here?
    From the project documents:
    Clearance -- The No. 7 Subway Extension tunnel would need to safely pass under a number of
    existing train and vehicular tunnels, including the A, C, and E lines at Eighth Avenue, a Port
    Authority Bus Terminal (PABT) bus underpass ramp, the Amtrak Empire Line rail cut, three Port
    Authority Lincoln Tunnel vehicular tubes, an Amtrak Empire Line tunnel (North Access Tunnel)
    which curves and descends to approach Penn Station, the Amtrak Hudson (North) River tunnels,
    the Eleventh Avenue viaduct, and the Long Island Rail Road Caemmerer Yard.
    • Environmental impact minimization -- A deeper alignment was selected to avoid using cut-andcover
    excavation techniques along Eleventh Avenue, and minimize the impacts of traffic disruption, pedestrian movement interference, and generation of noise and dust associated with
    exclusive reliance on cut-and-cover excavation.

  3. #168

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    Cut+cover works for shallow subway lines (like most of the early IRT), not for deep ones. Lots of existing lines were tunneled through bedrock, and that's how the 2nd Ave. line will be dug. The 7 extension has at least two major obstacles in its path -- the Lincoln Tunnel and the Amtrak/NJ Transit tunnels. Probably have to go pretty deep to get around those.

  4. #169
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    Right after the end of the current 7 line tunnel, there is a sublevel of the E platform at 42nd street, that is not used anymore, that actually blocks the 7's movement further west. I think they have decided to build under it but they need to have a very steep decline to do that.
    Last edited by ZippyTheChimp; October 23rd, 2007 at 11:47 AM. Reason: Removed quote

  5. #170

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    Originally the subways were not dug deep in New York because it was thought that people would not use them if their were too deep for whatever reasons this is why most Subway lines are built shallow with low ceilings which contributes to the claustrophobic feeling of the stations.

    Btw In Saint Petersburg where I was born (Russia) they built stations SUPER deep because of the terrain they were made as show pieces of superiority of communism.

    There is the station that I remember when going to visit my grandparents with my mother. See how deep this escalator is.


  6. #171
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    Added Funds Sought for No. 7 Expansion

    By ELIOT BROWN
    Special to the Sun
    October 23, 2007

    Over the next nine months the Bloomberg administration will likely press the state for an additional $450 million in funding for the no. 7 subway line extension, as cost overruns have left the 1.5-mile project with only one planned station stop.

    The city has put up the full $2 billion required for the project. Though with the major tunneling contract slated for approval tomorrow, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority has dropped plans for constructing the shell of a station at Tenth Avenue and 41st Street.

    The extension has been billed as an essential driver of development for the area west of Midtown, which is one of the Bloomberg administration's key initiatives.

    "The city is coming up with a couple of billion out of the taxpayer's money — I would argue that it's the MTA's responsibility" to fund the station, Mayor Bloomberg told reporters yesterday.

    While the city is anxious to have the MTA come up with the money, the state agency has said it is facing major budget deficits and is prioritizing other projects such as the Second Avenue Subway.

    The contract with the tunneling companies allows the authority to authorize construction of the second station, provided it comes up with $450 million to fund it within the next nine months.

  7. #172

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    It just occurred to me that they have to have a plan for the second station, because it was included in all the EIS documents.

  8. #173
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    Is there a state or federal statute that dictates the length of a bidding window. It seems the MTA has been accepting bids for what seems like over a year. It just seems to me a waste of time as construction prices are inflating rapidly over the period of the year. I do not see the logic in having such long bidding periods (especially when there is only one bid).

  9. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    HUGE Mistake ^^^

    Ridiculous that this is how the 7 Extension is panning out.

    Best to dump the whole thing and instead put in light rail all along W 42nd and down to 34th -- and then run it around.

    Why waste billions on a one-stop shuttle?
    man i am up for that. i love the idea of a light rail along the commuter corriders.

  10. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    Why waste billions on a one-stop shuttle?
    It's really stupid not to include the 2nd station, but it's not a shuttle. Don't forget it's the end of a long subway line through Queens.

    The tunnel doesn't end at the last stop at 34th St; it continues south to 24th st for lay-over tracks to store 6 trains. In the future, the tunnel could be extended east along the 23rd st corridor.

    Quote Originally Posted by eddhead View Post
    man i am up for that. i love the idea of a light rail along the commuter corriders.
    Proposed

  11. #176

    Default 9 months to get next station approved

    http://www.nysun.com/article/65084

    Looks like Bloomberg's political strategy is to start building the station, then tell the state if they really want it to be useful, they need $450 million more from the governor. My guess is they are hoping developers will lobby the state for the extra money.

  12. #177

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    December 1, 2007

    City Urged to Rethink Rail Access to West Side

    By WILLIAM NEUMAN

    The city should rethink its development plans for the Hudson Yards area west of Midtown, Senator Charles E. Schumer said in a sharply worded letter to the city yesterday. He said that hundreds of millions of dollars budgeted for that work should be put instead into an extension of the No. 7 subway line, including a new station at 10th Avenue.

    Mr. Schumer asked the city to postpone plans for a costly tree-lined pedestrian boulevard west of 10th Avenue and to direct money toward the station project, which was canceled because of escalating costs.

    But a city spokesman, John Gallagher, said that the city had already committed the money for the land acquisition for the first phase of the boulevard, from 33rd Street to 36th Street, and could not redirect it for a different use. He said about $560 million would be spent on land for the first phase of the boulevard and portions of the subway line, including a new station at 34th Street and 11th Avenue.

    “Hudson Yards’ success as one of the world’s next great commercial districts rests, in part, on the creation of a great public environment,” Mr. Gallagher said in a statement. He said the boulevard was a key part of that space.

    But in an interview, Senator Schumer said the city still had time to change course. “It seems so obvious that a second rail station is more important than a boulevard for economic development,” he said. “It’s not that the boulevard is a bad thing. It’s just if you’re faced with a choice, when there’s limited funds, you first do the infrastructure.”

    Mr. Schumer spoke after sending a letter to Deputy Mayor Daniel L. Doctoroff, who has led the push for development of the Hudson Yards area. “It is imperative that a second station be built now,” the senator wrote, warning that the city should be wary of getting the project only “half-right.”

    Mr. Schumer’s comments came at a critical time for a series of major projects aimed at spurring development on the far west edge of Midtown.

    The Metropolitan Transportation Authority plans to begin work soon to extend the No. 7 line from Times Square to the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center. A new station at 41st Street and 10th Avenue had been part of an earlier proposal but was dropped because of financing concerns.

    At the same time, the authority is evaluating bids from developers for the right to build a huge commercial and residential complex over its West Side railyards.

    The city has rezoned the area and has been working closely with the authority, pledging to pay up to $2.1 billion for the subway work. As part of its overall plan for the area, the city also intends to build parks and the new boulevard, which would run between 10th and 11th Avenues, from 33rd Street to 42nd Street. Last month, the authority agreed to pay a consortium of construction firms $1.14 billion for the first phase of work on the subway project, which involves boring the tunnels and digging out space for the station at 34th Street. The contract includes a $450 million option to create a cavern for a 10th Avenue station, but so far the city has said it will not pay for the additional work.

    Many transit advocates have criticized the arrangement, saying that a 10th Avenue station would be used by many residents and workers in the area.

    “The second station is far more important than the boulevard, and people are scratching their heads and wondering why the city isn’t doing it,” Mr. Schumer said in the interview.

    Jeremy Soffin, a spokesman for the transportation authority, declined to comment on Mr. Schumer’s letter.


    Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company

  13. #178
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    ^ That's why I like Chuck, he's thinking ahead on this when the city and MTA are not.

  14. #179

    Default i agree

    I had posted some stuff on this in the Hudson Yards thread but will continue discussion here. Hooray for Schumer - not he can back it up and get us some Congressional transit dollars. Why is a project projected to create 200K jobs not worth of federal transit dollars. Show me another equivalently priced transit project anywhere in the world, let alone the US, with those same return on investment to the community.

  15. #180

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    “The second station is far more important than the boulevard..."
    Bingo.

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