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Thread: 7 Train Extension

  1. #226

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    "similar to the one on 63rd St and Second Ave"

    I have to pad over there now?! Walking is good though; in this wonderful city, one can never get enough of it.

    63rd and Second would place it, I think, directly above both the Second Avenue subway and the East Side Access?

    Was it built for them in advance?

  2. #227

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    Built for 63rd St-being modified for Second Ave.

  3. #228

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    Thank you. I saw that it is indeed quite large and unlovely. And that it could get a lot larger if and when expanded onto the vacant land (presumably MTA land) on Second Avenue.

    And that it also sits above (way above, it seems) the F line tunnel. ESA is above or below the F line?

    Anyway it seems to me AntiNimby is right: there would be none of the 11th Avenue site left for other construction. Pity. It's an area of buildings worth saving and matching.

    When I posted a while back on the Brooklyn-Battery tunnel air-conditioning vent off Governors Island, I stumbled on the fact that, full-blast, the three air-conditioners can change all the air in the tubes in less than a minute.

    http://galaxyrising.com/ee/index.php...new_structure/

    And I guess with subways they move air that the trains displace? You presumably wouldnt want them compressing the air at the ends of the tunnels like a bottle of champagne...
    Last edited by Peter Quennell; March 1st, 2008 at 08:38 AM. Reason: Correction to tunnel name

  4. #229

    Default Strange doings under the Port Authority

    The Wikipedia entry on the Port Authority has the story (sorta) about that mysterious southbound spur line below the A, C and E tracks.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42nd_St...Avenue_Line%29

    Built by the city, maybe in a dastardly attempt to stop the 7 line from going any further west.

    And now the 7 line will head right across it and further west after all.

    The only mention of it I could see on this thread was by ramvid01 last October.

    Anyone know more? MKeit, perhaps?
    Last edited by Peter Quennell; March 7th, 2008 at 04:00 PM. Reason: My links never embed here!

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post

    ^^ This pdf posted by Zippy is quiet old but on pages 39 I believe (and possibly 37-41) there are illustrations of how the project is going to go under the 8th ave IND. It seems that in some of the elevations, that the 7 train will go uinder that lower level E train tunnel, but in another it seems it will go through it.

    My guess is that they will go through this lower level, but it is the MTA...

  6. #231

    Default # 7 extension

    The construction work is really making progress. Shaft construction is underway at both the 26th St and 34th St sites. A storage location is set up at 41/10 (SW corner), but a new building project seems to be blocking the shaft location on the NE side.

  7. #232
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    I was just thinking...

    ...because underground subway construction is so expensive and time consuming, why don't this city do 'cut and cover' subway tunnel building instead of the deep tunneling that they are doing now both here and on the SAS?

    What could possibly be the obstacles that might make this cheaper and faster method not feasible?

  8. #233
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    My guess is utility relocation. If they did cut and cover they would have to relocate all the utilities on the route, instead of just the launch box. But I could be wrong.

  9. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by ramvid01 View Post
    My guess is utility relocation. If they did cut and cover they would have to relocate all the utilities on the route, instead of just the launch box. But I could be wrong.
    Lol...cut and cover is the way the original subway was built because it was thought that the public would be scared to use the subway if it was too deep in the ground...

  10. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
    ...because underground subway construction is so expensive and time consuming, why don't this city do 'cut and cover' subway tunnel building instead of the deep tunneling that they are doing now both here and on the SAS?
    Project documentation:
    Clearance -- The No. 7 Subway Extension tunnel would need to safely pass under a number of
    existing train and vehicular tunnels, including the A, C, and E lines at Eighth Avenue, a Port
    Authority Bus Terminal (PABT) bus underpass ramp, the Amtrak Empire Line rail cut, three Port
    Authority Lincoln Tunnel vehicular tubes, an Amtrak Empire Line tunnel (North Access Tunnel)
    which curves and descends to approach Penn Station, the Amtrak Hudson (North) River tunnels,
    the Eleventh Avenue viaduct, and the Long Island Rail Road Caemmerer Yard.

    • Environmental impact minimization -- A deeper alignment was selected to avoid using cut-and cover excavation techniques along Eleventh Avenue, and minimize the impacts of traffic disruption, pedestrian movement interference, and generation of noise and dust associated with
    exclusive reliance on cut-and-cover excavation.
    Once the TBMs are in place, the tunnelling is fast compared to the old drilling and blasting. The water tunnel TBM averages 50 ft a day. And the bored-out tunnel needs less concrete liner.

    In a perfect world of constant funding, I'd put a few TBMs underground, and have them tunnel everywhere.

  11. #236

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    Plus it is too deep. Cut and cover is not practical below 30', especially in rock. This project is 80' deep in order to pass under the PRR and Lincoln tunnels.

  12. #237

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    ^
    If you hollow out all the space under Manhattan, the Island will just fall into the hole.

  13. #238

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    Quote Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
    I was just thinking...

    ...because underground subway construction is so expensive and time consuming, why don't this city do 'cut and cover' subway tunnel building instead of the deep tunneling that they are doing now both here and on the SAS?

    What could possibly be the obstacles that might make this cheaper and faster method not feasible?
    The issue is that they want to provide direct subway accesses to the convention center. Therefore they are going deep to clear the tunnels to NJ.

  14. #239
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    Default 10th Ave station scrapped.

    From NY1 -

    Transit officials dropped plans to build an additional 7 subway line station Thursday.Officials eliminated the plan to build a station at 10th Avenue and 41st Street when they were unable to obtain the $450 million to complete the project.
    The Bloomberg administration said a station is not necessary since the neighborhood is already developed.
    Advocates for the station do not think that is an excuse to stop construction.
    "Is that the only reason we build subway stations now, to spur development? How about to serve the people that are already in a neighborhood? I just don't buy that logic at all," said Andrew Albert of the NYC Transit Riders Council.
    In a statement, the MTA said, "While we would prefer to include a station at 10th Avenue, it is not critical to the success of the overall project. If funding is identified at a later date we will revisit the issue."
    Plans for one additional station on the 7 line are still underway and construction should be complete by 2013.

  15. #240
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    A short-sighted decision, but when cash is tight sometimes dumb things happen.

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