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Thread: 7 Train Extension

  1. #541

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
    It has more support then the 7 train , it has support from the powerful suburban leaders who see the chance of a one seat ride into the city , it has the support of a few senators on both sides of the Hudson , it has the pressure from Amtrak and NJT.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
    Its also an Election year next year for both Christie and Bloomie , both are likely to be voted out and there goes your 7 project.
    Railroads that depend on public subsidies are in no position top apply pressure.

    Suburban leaders have little impact on a national funding issue like Gateway. No matter how beneficial, projects are always seen as pork by legislators that represent other areas.

    Support for the #7 extension is entirely driven by Bloomberg and Christie? It doesn't have popular support?

  2. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    Railroads that depend on public subsidies are in no position top apply pressure.

    Suburban leaders have little impact on a national funding issue like Gateway. No matter how beneficial, projects are always seen as pork by legislators that represent other areas.

    Support for the #7 extension is entirely driven by Bloomberg and Christie? It doesn't have popular support?
    I consider it a Bloomie Pet Project. When you think about it ,would the 7 ever have been extended to the West side if not for Bloomie? The MTA had no plans on extending the 7 intill Bloomberg pushed it. The 7 Extension to the West side was not that popular an idea , most New Yorkers I know wanted the SAS completed before the extension of the 7 , its still this way. As for Christie mention anything cheaper to him and he'll support it , rarely does he seem to do his homework but that's a whole another topic. I'm not sure New Yorkers are going to support a subway into NJ over a subway extension in NYC like the SAS or Subway to SI.....

    As for Railroads , its not really the Railroads themselves but the Railroad advocates who have there hands all the way up the political mountain of power...there are over several groups in NJ alone most are suburban and favor suburban over Urban projects which makes it hard for Urban advocates to get things done. NJ's Rail advocates are some of the most powerful in the Northeast , its not like PA or CT where they point fingers and often get ignored by politicians, in NJ they tend to come off reasonable and there demands are often met because of that. Unless the 7 Extension is to Hoboken be prepared to see a wall of opposition to the 7 Extension and it will be killed like the ARC. Rail advocates in NJ did not support the ARC....and had a huge hand in killing it.

  3. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT757 View Post
    Where on earth did you come up with that? The $3 Billion the Port Authority dedicated to ARC, from the recent toll increases, is gone. That money is going to help repair several roads and bridges in New Jersey including the Pulaski Skyway. The $2 Billion from the Turnpike Authority is going right into replenishing the State Transportation trust fund. There are no funds left from ARC for anything, not Gateway.

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201...o_use_arc.html

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201..._to_redir.html
    Hmmm , I wasn't aware of that went through....explains why the Route 7 bridge is under construction after being on life support for a few years... On a side note do you every think the gas tax will be raised in this state to replenish the TTF?

  4. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
    I consider it a Bloomie Pet Project. When you think about it ,would the 7 ever have been extended to the West side if not for Bloomie? The MTA had no plans on extending the 7 intill Bloomberg pushed it. The 7 Extension to the West side was not that popular an idea , most New Yorkers I know wanted the SAS completed before the extension of the 7 , its still this way. As for Christie mention anything cheaper to him and he'll support it , rarely does he seem to do his homework but that's a whole another topic. I'm not sure New Yorkers are going to support a subway into NJ over a subway extension in NYC like the SAS or Subway to SI.....
    Bloomberg was first politician to publicly propose that the 7 continue on to New Jersey, and it's been gaining political support ever since. We'll see if it gets enough support to find funding. But regardless of if 7ex or SAS is favored by the public, the results so far indicate that SAS is a boondoggle and the 7ex project is a model of efficiency. 7ex is under budget and ahead of schedule, with virtually no public disruption. Compare that to SAS which gets pushed back a year every year, is bleeding cash and continues to demand more money every year, has severely impacted 2nd avenue residents and caused extensive property damage. When presented with the status of the two projects, do you think the public would be so opposed to taking the 7 extension project to a second phase?

  5. #545
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    How is the SAS a boon? If the SAS was a Bloomberg project i bet it be under budget and ahead of schedule , anything Bloomberg wants done tends to get built very fast or implemented fast.... Considering that SAS is badly need to take pressure off the over capacity Lexington line , I don't see how its a boon. The reason for the SAS being pushed back is because of the 7 extension being fastracked...

  6. #546
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    woah, what... SAS is being pushed back by the 7? How do you figure. The SAS keeps getting pushed back because of complications with the street utilities, old infrastructure, and IMO the wrong engineers & inefficient and/or corrupt contractors. After all this, do you realize that SAS will only result in 3 more subway stops? I'm not so sure anything will ever get built below 63rd street, it's just gotten completely unfeasable due to the costs. IMO phase 4 will never happen, and phase 3 has an outside chance of being done by 2050. Hopefully I'm not dead by then. 7ex, on the other hand, could at least get to Hoboken by the end of the decade and would connect an entire STATE to the NYC subway system. It's an order of magnitude addition to the system.

  7. #547

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
    I consider it a Bloomie Pet Project. When you think about it ,would the 7 ever have been extended to the West side if not for Bloomie? The MTA had no plans on extending the 7 intill Bloomberg pushed it. The 7 Extension to the West side was not that popular an idea , most New Yorkers I know wanted the SAS completed before the extension of the 7
    Whether or not Bloomberg was the driving force misses the point.

    It wasn't Bloomberg against everybody; just like anything else in a big city like New York, there were alternate viewpoints. There was support for the #7 project; without it, Bloomberg never would have been able to push it through. The associated Olympic bid had little public support, and it failed.

    The biggest public resistance to the project was the decision to cancel the station at 10th Ave.

  8. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    woah, what... SAS is being pushed back by the 7? How do you figure. The SAS keeps getting pushed back because of complications with the street utilities, old infrastructure, and IMO inefficient or corrupt contractors. After all this, do you realize that SAS will only result in 3 more subway stops? I'm not so sure anything will ever get built below 63rd street, it's just gotten completely unfeasable due to the costs. IMO phase 4 will never happen, and phase 3 has an outside chance of being done by 2050. Hopefully I'm not dead by then. 7ex, on the other hand, could at least get to Hoboken by the end of the decade and would connect an entire STATE to the NYC subway system. It's an order of magnitude improvement
    They only had enough funding due to the 7 project to afford one TBM instead of 2 like the 7 , Bloomberg put so much pressure on the MTA for the 7 project that the SAS went on the back burner intill a few months ago. I realize the SAS is a tough project , but it needs to be done to relive pressure on the Lex , which will explode once the 7 / Hudson Yards are fully built up. I agree with you about 3 & 4 probably never getting built , but Phase 2 should be very easy to built considering its already half built. Phase 1 & 2 will take enough pressure off the Lexington line , Phase 3 gets really complex and Phase 4 seems to bend the mind on how they will build it.

  9. #549

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
    How is the SAS a boon?
    Don't say boon when the word is boondoggle; you'll confuse the discussion.

    If the SAS was a Bloomberg project i bet it be under budget and ahead of schedule , anything Bloomberg wants done tends to get built very fast or implemented fast
    This is wild speculation; Bloomberg's record on getting things done has been mixed.

    The SAS and the #7 are two different projects.

    The SAS is necessary to relieve congestion, but unlike most NYC subway projects, it won't pay for itself with a direct increase in revenue, so it has to deal with the realities of funding. The #7 is associated with development of Hudson Yards, so it is similar to historical subway projects.

    The way I see it, the SAS is a more difficult project because of where it is.

  10. #550
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    Parks Department expenditures for rebuilds & renovations have been wildly over budget in many cases during the past 10 years. Once he's out of office, and the real facts come out about how the city spent money during his reign, we may find that lots of surprises.

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    I'd be more likely to bet that whoever follows him in office will waste substantially more money, if any such speculated corruption is ever brought to light

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    Corruption in public works is as old as NYC itself.

  13. #553

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    Why so pessimistic on the SAS? Is it really that much of an engineering challenge? How important is Phase 2/3 anyway?

    Also, how do you know what the climate will be like towards transit funding in 10 years? Nobody can tell who'll be in Washington. The situation may be very different than it is today with all the austerity and anti-transit/anti-spending sentiment on the Hill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
    So what makes the 7 easier to get funding? .
    It doesn't rely so much on Federal Funding. If you watch the news at all you can plainly see that the political climate is not conducive to getting Federal support for a $12-15 Billion dollar "Amtrak" project in the Northeast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
    Hmmm , I wasn't aware of that went through....explains why the Route 7 bridge is under construction after being on life support for a few years... On a side note do you every think the gas tax will be raised in this state to replenish the TTF?
    Not while there's a Republican with Political aspirations in the New Jersey Governor's Office. BTW.. New Jersey has the third lowest gas tax, only Wyoming and Alaska have a lower State gas tax.

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