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Thread: 7 Train Extension

  1. #61

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    ^ If they're going to make him pay for part of the station, they should let him have his ol' Cirque.

  2. #62
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fahzee View Post
    that's the same developer who tried to pass of cirquer du soleil as a small, private theatre group, right?
    Related was the original developer -- then at one point after the Cirque de Soleil theater plan didn't get approved the word was that Related was putting the site up for sale.

    But based on THIS from last month it seems Related is still in the game here.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    They'll find the funds under a rock. Maybe Spitzer will provide the rock?
    The MTA has vastly improved - in finding the rocks.

    MTA backtracks on 7 line controversy

    By Justin Rocket Silverman
    amNewYork Staff Writer

    January 23, 2007
    Hell's Kitchen residents might yet see a subway stop in their neighborhood, the MTA said Monday.

    "MTA CEO and Executive Director Lee Sander is taking a fresh look at all of the major rapid-transit projects on the MTA's plate, including plans to extend the No.7 subway line to the far West Side," the agency's spokesman Tim O'Brien said.

    Transportation advocates and residents held a news conference Monday morning to call on Sander to alter the MTA's plans for the No. 7 train extension.

    Current plans call for just one new stop, at 11th Avenue and 34th Street to service the West Side Yards development project, with the 'shell' of a station built at Tenth Avenue and 41st Street. But there is no indication of whether the shell would actually be converted into a stop on the No. 7 line.

    The agency has maintained it doesn't have money on hand to build the full station, which would cost about $200 million.

    "Can you believe you are going to go from Times Square to 11th Ave without any stop in between?" asked Bill Henderson of the MTA's Permanent Citizens Advisory Committee.

    Henderson said he was hopeful some of the money the city is saving through lower interest rates on its bonds might be used to fund the full subway station for Hell's Kitchen residents, many of whom walk all the way to the Port Authority each day to catch the subway.

    Copyright 2007 Newsday Inc.


    We should throw rocks.

  4. #64
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    Sounds like this is going to drag out for a long time...

    Metro

    ‘A new era at the MTA,’ part 2

    by patrick arden / metro new york
    JAN 23, 2007
    Additional reporting by Michael P. Ventura


    In part two of Metro’s exclusive sit-down with Elliot “Lee” Sander, the Metropolitan Transportation?Authority’s new executive director focuses on the agency’s future, with plans for major projects such as the Second Avenue Subway and the 7 line extension.


    The MTA is currently in a building boom. Gov. Spitzer has already listed his priorities as the Second Ave. Subway, East Side Access and the Tappan Zee Bridge, but what’s the outlook for other proposed projects, like the JFK rail link?

    We think that’s a big project. The governor’s position hasn’t changed. His priority is still East Side Access and Second Ave., and if there’s a way to do it all, then no one will be happier than the governor. But with our limited budget, we have to set priorities.


    There’s growing ridership in the reverse commute and in inter-borough travel that doesn’t involve Manhattan. Do you have any plans to cater to these riders?

    Bus Rapid Transit’s very important. That fits into the issue of commutation patterns, and using rubber tire to address growth in areas where it may not make sense financially and otherwise to put in that heavy rail solution.


    Bus Rapid Transit has been proposed along Second Ave., where you’re building a subway. Why can’t BRT replace the more expensive and complicated subway project?

    I think you need both. The Second Ave. corridor is very good for Bus Rapid Transit, and I believe that is the plan. In the next month or two, we’ll be reviewing Bus Rapid Transit in terms of meeting our schedule, whether there’s any way to advance that schedule, if there are any funds available to perhaps do more corridors. There is such overcrowding on the Lexington Ave. subway and such a demand that one can easily justify better bus service on the M15 as well as the addition of the Second Ave. Subway.


    Will the Second Ave. Subway ever get downtown?

    Certainly, that’s our objective. It’s a function of where we are financially. Second Ave. is in some ways a misnomer. It’s almost like the equivalent of an IND, an IRT — the vision is not really Second Ave. It is to go up to the Bronx and then possibly out to Brooklyn. The governor has talked about going out to the Bronx and to have additional capacity between Downtown Brooklyn and Manhattan.


    But is it cost effective to build subways?

    There is a real need to decongest the Lex and add additional capacity into the core of Manhattan. From a network standpoint, we are at capacity into the Manhattan core. Theoretically, if there is a problem that the only solution is to have another heavy rail response, then we should look at it, but one thing at a time. I think it will obviously be a major challenge just to realize the vision of a fully built Second Ave. I truly do not believe that the city will be able to compete globally without the Second Ave. Subway. With the kind of overcrowding that you have, to have Second Ave. to provide capacity into the core, to create redundancy with the Lexington Avenue Subway, and the other network benefits — I just think it’s critical.


    Have you met with Transport Workers Union Local 100 President Roger Toussaint?

    I had met with him after I was nominated, and we met for lunch. I’ve had several phone conversations in the interim with him.


    What about the threat of another strike, this time on Metro-North?

    I had been personally engaged in the conversation with the administration of Metro-North, and we are working hard to avoid a cliffhanger and obviously avoid a strike.


    Do you see opportunities for the MTA to create recurring sources of revenue from the city’s plan to develop the Hudson Yards area?

    Well, I’ve already met with [Deputy Mayor] Dan Doctoroff, and we are developing the [Request for Proposals] collaboratively for the sale of the yards, and the MTA will benefit financially as it should from the sale.


    How about that extra station on the 7 line?

    Our druthers would be that it be done while it’s under construction rather than wait, but, as the governor said, the 7 line is a city initiative. We wish we could, but at this point I don’t think the MTA is capable financially of supporting that at this time.


    What about cost overruns on the 7 line?


    We are in discussions with the city as to how we deal with any cost overruns on the project if they were to occur. We don’t anticipate them at this time.

  5. #65
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    Metro

    City says no to 7 cost overruns, second station

    by patrick arden / metro new york
    JAN 23, 2007

    CITY HALL. Deputy Mayor Daniel Doctoroff made it clear yesterday that the Metropolitan Transportation Authority should be responsible for any cost overruns on the extension of the 7 subway line, though he acknowledged the project was pushed by the city and never in the agency’s capital budget.

    The city is paying $2.1 billion for the subway extension, but increased costs have already forced the new line to make just one stop — at 34th Street and Tenth Avenue. Transit advocates have called for a return to the original scheme, which would have put a second station at 41st Street. Now the MTA will simply leave a shell at that spot for a future station.

    “We’ve had an understanding with the MTA since the very beginning of the project that the city was only going to put up the 2, then 2.1 billion — that’s what we could afford — and that we would prepare at a later date to have a station at 41st and Tenth,” Doctoroff said. “If the MTA wants to build it, then we’re very supportive of it — we just don’t have the resources to do it.”

    Doctoroff believes there won’t be any cost overruns. But if there are, he said, the city won’t step in.

    “We’ve been studying this now for several years and hopefully built in sufficient contingencies,” Doctoroff said. “However, it’s really the MTA that is designing the project, that made the cost estimates we’ve relied on in doing our financing, and therefore it’s not unreasonable for the MTA to assume risk above the level that they’ve committed to us they can bring the project in at.”

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyO View Post
    “However, it’s really the MTA that is designing the project, that made the cost estimates we’ve relied on in doing our financing, and therefore it’s not unreasonable for the MTA to assume risk above the level that they’ve committed to us they can bring the project in at.”
    That's their first mistake.

    Everyone know's that you shouldn't allow the MTA to take charge of any project.

    They're only good for running the system, and even that they're pretty lousy at.

  7. #67

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    This project is in limbo again....lol...they are now saying that the city and MTA cant agree on who's going to handle the cost overrun which is up to $1 billion now including the 10th ave station...this so hilarious beyond belief...this project is going to be up to $5 billion soon the way MTA is handling it and the way they are wasting time...basically its a travesty...they should disband this pathetic organization and fire that dumb ass Doctoroff...

    Just another example why you can't make anything happen in NY...





    MTA exec threatens to stop 7 line extension

    By Chuck Bennett
    amNewYork Staff Writer

    February 14, 2007
    The MTA's top exec warned Tuesday that he would stop the No. 7 extension project until City Hall agrees to pay for projected cost overruns that have ballooned to $1 billion.

    The unexpected move adds a new wrinkle to the $2 billion project to bring the Flushing Line from its Times Square terminus to 11th Avenue and 34th Street.

    The No. 7 extension is a key part of Mayor Michael Bloomberg's West Side development plan. City Hall agreed to pay for $2 billion of the costs, but had allotted just $100 million for cost overruns.

    "We don't have an identified funding source for any cost overruns, if they occur, and for the rolling stock," Elliot "Lee" Sander, the MTA's new executive director and chief executive, told amNewYork.


    Sander was reacting to statements Tuesday about the cost overruns from Assemb. Richard Brodsky (D-Westchester), who has oversight of the MTA.

    Already a year behind the original schedule, construction is slated to begin this December.

    "We will do our best to meet that time frame," Sander said, adding he already started talks with Deputy Mayor Dan Doctoroff, who is overseeing City Hall's end of the project.

    But City Hall isn't budging.

    "A deal is a deal," said Doctoroff spokesman John Gallagher. He added that the No. 7 extension will provide new tax revenues to the MTA.

    "The principle here was always the city will pay and the MTA will bill," said Brodsky.

    "The danger to the MTA is a billion dollar in cost overruns would endanger the Second Avenue subway and East Side Access," he said, referring to the project to bring the Long Island Rail Road to Grand Central Terminal.

    In addition to a general increase in construction costs, the MTA needs about $176 million to purchase 110 extra subway cars for the extended No. 7.


    There is also a heated debate about whether a station at 10th Avenue and 42nd Street should be built concurrently with the No. 7 extension or at a later time.

    Sander said he favors building it concurrently because it would cost $250 million -- half of the cost of returning at a later date.
    Copyright 2007 Newsday Inc.

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    there's no way they will outright cancel this project - delay it, yes, scale it back, certainly- but they've spent way too much on the planning phase to turn back now.
    However, I think we can rightly assume that the 10th Ave Station is completely dead

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenious View Post
    basically its a travesty...they should disband this pathetic organization and fire that dumb ass Doctoroff...
    Just another example why you can't make anything happen in NY...
    Okay, you need to back off just a little there.

    I know you're frustrated with the constant setbacks but to blame Doctoroff (who btw, I believe has done an admirable job in his position) because of the well-known ineptitude of the MTA is totally off the mark on your part.

    In fact, if it weren't for his part in pushing for the redevelopment of the West Side, we wouldn't even be discussing this extension at all.

    The MTA has been a bungling agency before anyone here was even born.

    This was pretty much expected by anyone with an ounce of intelligence, even before this latest news story broke.

    You should put the blame on the MTA because frankly that's just how they are, keystone cops.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
    Okay, you need to back off just a little there.

    I know you're frustrated with the constant setbacks but to blame Doctoroff (who btw, I believe has done an admirable job in his position) because of the well-known ineptitude of the MTA is totally off the mark on your part.

    In fact, if it weren't for his part in pushing for the redevelopment of the West Side, we wouldn't even be discussing this extension at all.

    The MTA has been a bungling agency before anyone here was even born.

    This was pretty much expected by anyone with an ounce of intelligence, even before this latest news story broke.

    You should put the blame on the MTA because frankly that's just how they are, keystone cops.
    I won't back off until we have some people that are accountable for their actions. MTA is untouchable and so is Doctoroff so where is their incentive hold to a budget or any kind of planning or schedule? There is zero incentive because they have absolutely nothing to fear. That's the problem here.

    Every single project on the table is going to face the same fate. If you cant even come close to meeting the budget then whats the point? Just do like Pentagon does and just give em a blank check and see billions vanish or don't do anything at all. You have a problem with these choices? then make people be accoutable for sticking to the budget. To be over 50% over budget eve before construction starts is endemic of a lax and poor planning and a lack of proper bidding procedures.

    I care because I live here, if you don't care about civic project than go live in suburbia and take your gas guzzler to work while making sure this world is going to hell.

  11. #71
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    You don't even know what the hell you're talking about.

    You are just angry.

    Doctoroff like Bloomberg don't need to have the fear of accountability to perform.

    They don't even need the jobs they have now.

    So to say that Doctoroff should be fearful in order to get something done shows you don't even know anything.

    The redevelopment of the West Side is primarily Doctoroff's project, so if he doesn't have the motivition, I don't know who will.

    The fact of the matter is that getting anything as large as this done in this city is a monumental task in itself.

    You're going to run into some obstacles...no, make that a lot of obstacles and stuff like this is to be expected.

    I don't think anyone can do a big project in this city without running into them. That's just a fact of life, like it or not.

    Throw in the high costs of construction in this city and quite frankly, all over the world now, and you've got what we have here.

    So firing this guy or that guy is not going to help you one bit.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
    You don't even know what the hell you're talking about.

    You are just angry.

    Doctoroff like Bloomberg don't need to have the fear of accountability to perform.

    They don't even need the jobs they have now.

    So to say that Doctoroff should be fearful in order to get something done shows you don't even know anything.

    The redevelopment of the West Side is primarily Doctoroff's project, so if he doesn't have the motivition, I don't know who will.

    The fact of the matter is that getting anything as large as this done in this city is a monumental task in itself.

    You're going to run into some obstacles...no, make that a lot of obstacles and stuff like this is to be expected.

    I don't think anyone can do a big project in this city without running into them. That's just a fact of life, like it or not.

    Throw in the high costs of construction in this city and quite frankly, all over the world now, and you've got what we have here.

    So firing this guy or that guy is not going to help you one bit.
    Doctoroff is a Harvard educated lawyer who's main experience comes from working for a Venture Capital firm (Oak Hill) same one that owns the company I work for. This guy was the proponent of the lame NYC2012 plan and the Jets stadium. He is a Mayors lap dog and appointed by the mayor and has absolutely zero legitimacy of democratic process. The only thing he has done for this city is waste millions on these unrealized studies, proposals and projects which are going no where (like 7th train extension) he hasn't gotten a single project done in this city. He's a Robert Moses wannabee who lacks the guts and the courage to make his case. His main thing is that he wanted to bring Olympics to NY, that failed horribly. Now his other project is falling apart. Maybe we should realize that Investment Bankers make poor public planners.

  13. #73
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    Belittling someone by calling them a lap dog only shows your bitterness.

    If working for a good personal friend is being a lap dog, then I'm sure you are a lap dog too for someone. Everyone then is a lap dog.

    The fact of the matter is, the guy has come up with lots of great ideas to further the welfare of this city. It's not his fault that the system we have in place makes everything impossible.

    I'd like you to name someone who has even tried to bring something special to this city.

    The failed Olympics bid was a culmination of a lot factors. Some of them was out of any one individual's hands.

    Who would've have thought New Yorkers would show so little enthusiasm for this?

    Look how Paris and the whole of France reacted after losing to London and how London and the entire UK reacted after winning?

    That's enthusiasm. The judges can sense that stuff.

    This was not the only factor but it had some effect. This is an example of something that no one mortal can have foreseen.

    As far as the money used to do studies, I'm not sure which ones you're talking about but regardless, studies are the procedure that the law requires in order to do anything.

    As I said before, if you're fed up with the system, then that's one thing but to blame anything on Doctoroff is just your rage talking.

  14. #74
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    antinimby: Did you remember to send DD a Valentine's Card?

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    MTA is run by professional engineers, constrained and steered by politicians. The conflict between professional expertise and political agendas is a difficult thing to manage in any organization, especially one as large and complex as the MTA. The professional staff is fallible, but in many ways they represent some of the best and brightest in the field.

    This project does not serve and real transportation purpose. It did not rise through the wish-list of MTA capital projects due to its transportation merits. It was put at the top of the pile because the Mayor and Deputy Mayor want to take credit for massive real estate deals on the West Side.

    Doctoroff is a politician pushing a politically-motivated project. He has no concept of the engineering issues and costs involved. When you read the papers, listen to what the experts at the MTA are very cautiously trying to say, rather than Doctoroff's political bluster.

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