View Poll Results: Who should get an indictment?

Voters
11. You may not vote on this poll
  • Karl Rove - Deputy WH Chief of Staff ("Bush's Brain" aka "Turdblossum")

    5 45.45%
  • I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby - Chief of Staff to the VP (aka "Scooter")

    3 27.27%
  • Dick Cheney - VP of the USA (aka "Big Time")

    4 36.36%
  • Karen Hughes - Under Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy (aka "Lima Green Bean")

    1 9.09%
  • Alberto Gonzalez - Attorney General (aka "Fredo")

    1 9.09%
  • George W. Bush - POTUS (aka "Dubya" aka "Bushie")

    5 45.45%
  • Steven Hadley - National Security Advisor (aka "Hads")

    1 9.09%
  • Andrew Card - WH Chief of Staff (aka "Tangent Man")

    1 9.09%
  • Condoleeza Rice - Secretary of State (aka "Guru")

    2 18.18%
  • All of the Above (aka "Dead Meat")

    6 54.55%
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Thread: Who's Indicted? You Choose ...

  1. #1
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Default Who's Indicted? You Choose ...

    Federal Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is wrapping up his inquiry regarding Leaks & Lies; there is a good possibility that indictments of some top Bush Administration officials are on the horizon. Indictments would mean a quick exit from the White House for anyone so served.

    Who deserves an indictment and why?

    Vote for more than one if you see fit.

    Heck, vote for them all if itwill make you feel better!
    Last edited by lofter1; October 16th, 2005 at 08:28 PM.

  2. #2

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    Old Scooter is definitely getting one, especially considering his brilliant plan of intimidating reporters.

    Knock on wood, I think Karl Rove's getting a surprise this week, too.

  3. #3
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    Wow, seeing any of them in prison fatigues would be immensely satifying. Arresting Karen Hughes would put to rest my believe that she is actually a man by demonstrating what prison she would be sent to.

    Overall, I think they are all indictable and guilty of destroying our nation, perhaps beyond repair. I think I need to move beyond who should get indicted and determine who should be tried for treason and be sentenced accordingly.

    DICK CHENEY should be on death row.
    KARL ROVE should be on death row.
    DONALD RUMSFELD should be on death row.
    GEORGE W. BUSH should be on death row.
    CONDI RICE should be on death row.

    I think they have all committed treason.

    I'm not worried about who'll be indicted. I'm worried about who'll be pardoned.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schadenfrau
    Old Scooter is definitely getting one, especially considering his brilliant plan of intimidating reporters.
    Anyone called Scooter should definitely do some quality time in the slammer.

  5. #5
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    Yes and he would be scooting for the pleasure of his cellmate!

  6. #6
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    They better ready a whole darned wing in that Federal Prison...

    The Financial Times is reporting that "Evidence is building that the probe conducted by Patrick Fitzgerald, special prosecutor, has extended beyond the leaking of a covert CIA agent's name to include questioning about the administration's handling of pre-Iraq war intelligence."

    Go here: http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/sh...9&postcount=71

    And Raw Story is saying:

    NEW YORK DAILY NEWS TO REPORT THAT SOURCES BELIEVE SOMEONE HAS FLIPPED IN WHITE HOUSE, AIDING LEAK INVESTIGATION.... DEVELOPING...//

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by stache
    Yes and he would be scooting for the pleasure of his cellmate!
    Or would that be clenching?

  8. #8
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    Very Thatchery.

  9. #9
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    From the Financial Times. This is pretty damning. But, is this the ploy to get rid of Cheney and bring in a viable 2008 nominee before the election? It's hard to believe anything anyone is saying.

    http://news.ft.com/cms/s/afdb7b0c-40...00e2511c8.html

    Cheney 'cabal' hijacked foreign policy
    By Edward Alden in Washington
    Published: October 20 2005 00:00 | Last updated: October 20 2005 00:19

    Vice-President Dick Cheney and a handful of others had hijacked the government's foreign policy apparatus, deciding in secret to carry out policies that had left the US weaker and more isolated in the world, the top aide to former Secretary of State Colin Powell claimed on Wednesday.

    In a scathing attack on the record of President George W. Bush, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, chief of staff to Mr Powell until last January, said: “What I saw was a cabal between the vice-president of the United States, Richard Cheney, and the secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld, on critical issues that made decisions that the bureaucracy did not know were being made.

    “Now it is paying the consequences of making those decisions in secret, but far more telling to me is America is paying the consequences.”


    Mr Wilkerson said such secret decision-making was responsible for mistakes such as the long refusal to engage with North Korea or to back European efforts on Iran.

    It also resulted in bitter battles in the administration among those excluded from the decisions.

    “If you're not prepared to stop the feuding elements in the bureaucracy as they carry out your decisions, you are courting disaster. And I would say that we have courted disaster in Iraq, in North Korea, in Iran.”

    The comments, made at the New America Foundation, a Washington think-tank, were the harshest attack on the administration by a former senior official since criticisms by Richard Clarke, former White House terrorism czar, and Paul O'Neill, former Treasury secretary, early last year.

    Mr Wilkerson said his decision to go public had led to a personal falling out with Mr Powell, whom he served for 16 years at the Pentagon and the State Department.

    “He's not happy with my speaking out because, and I admire this in him, he is the world's most loyal soldier."

    Among his other charges:

    ■ The detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere was “a concrete example” of the decision-making problem, with the president and other top officials in effect giving the green light to soldiers to abuse detainees. “You don't have this kind of pervasive attitude out there unless you've condoned it.”

    ■ Condoleezza Rice, the former national security adviser and now secretary of state, was “part of the problem”. Instead of ensuring that Mr Bush received the best possible advice, “she would side with the president to build her intimacy with the president”.

    ■ The military, particularly the army and marine corps, is overstretched and demoralised. Officers, Mr Wilkerson claimed, “start voting with their feet, as they did in Vietnam. . . and all of a sudden your military begins to unravel”.

    Mr Wilkerson said former president George H.W. Bush “one of the finest presidents we have ever had” understood how to make foreign policy work. In contrast, he said, his son was “not versed in international relations and not too much interested in them either”.

    “There's a vast difference between the way George H.W. Bush dealt with major challenges, some of the greatest challenges at the end of the 20th century, and effected positive results in my view, and the way we conduct diplomacy today.”

  10. #10
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Some interesting analysis, with thanks to those brainy guys who love the GOP:

    TREASONGATE:

    A Sitting President Can Be Indicted

    (And so can a sitting Vice President.)

    http://citizenspook.blogspot.com/

    For a change, I'm not going to give you my own analysis. Instead, I'm going to quote arch conservative lawyer, the legal sidekick of Rush Limbaugh, the infamous Mark Levin of the Landmark Legal Foundation, aka "The Great One". Let's have a look at what he has to say, and what Rush totally agreed with, regarding the indictment of a sitting President (albeit another President, another time).

    This comes from an official Landmark Legal brief ( http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/9694/Rush.html ):


    LANDMARK LEGAL FOUNDATION

    Can A President Be Indicted While in Office, Or Must He First Be Impeached?

    BY MARK R. LEVIN AND ARTHUR F. FERGENSON
    January 23, 1998

    Can a president be indicted while in office, or must he first be impeached?

    Recent events in Washington have renewed this once obscure debate.

    Article I, Section 3 of the United States Constitution states, in part:
    "Judgment in cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States: but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to indictment, trial, judgment and punishment, according to law."
    There are two different concepts expressed in this part of the Constitution. First, impeachment is a political response, and the violations do not have to be specifically enumerated in a criminal code. It allows the public, through its representatives in Congress, to act on its revulsion with a president.

    Some point to Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution and claim it requires criminal wrongdoing as a condition of impeachment. That section states, "The president, vice president and all civil officers of the United States shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction, of treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."

    No less than the late constitutional expert Raoul Berger, who was one of the nation's leading scholars on the subject of impeachment, among others, wrote that treason, bribery, "'high crimes and misdemeanors' appear to be words of art confined to impeachments, without roots in the ordinary criminal law and which had no relation to whether an indictment would lie in the particular circumstances."

    Second, the language in Article I, Section 3 makes clear that impeachment is not an exclusive remedy. A president is still subject to criminal prosecution, if warranted. He can be impeached and removed from office, but this is a limited remedy. Given this limitation, the Founding Fathers wanted to make clear that impeachment would not immunize a president and bar subsequent criminal prosecution. Obviously, this concern only arises in cases where impeachment precedes criminal prosecution. Therefore, if criminal prosecution precedes impeachment, it is not an issue.


  11. #11
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Juicy Scoop?

    Fitzgerald gossip straight from my inbox

    Here's a juicy e-mail I got from a Hill staffer.

    Posted by Jan Frel at 12:44 PM on October 19, 2005.

    http://www.alternet.org/bloggers/frel/27082/

    just got this e-mail from a Democratic House member's staffer with tons of good dirt on the Plame investigation. I'm reprinting it whole cloth to share all, and show that while these Hill staffers are well-informed, they sure could use some capitalization classes.


    Among the things I hadn't seen before:
    -Fred Flights, an assistant to John Bolton, is a named name who could be indicted.

    -Sens. John McCain and Lindsey Graham have been suggested as replacements for Dick Cheney.

    -Colin Powell told John McCain he showed the infamous memo with Plame's identity on it two just two people; Dick Cheney and George Bush.

    -Fitzgerald is looking at the precedent set from the indictment of Tricky Dick's veep Spiro Agnew to pursue against Cheney.
    That's red meat folks.
    Text of the e-mail:

    below, some extremely sensitive information about the impending conclusion of the valerie plame investigations. the sources include two senior members of senate and key staffers; counsel for individuals that have been called before the grand jury; and two journalists taking a lead position in investigating the case. the following represents a composite of the information from those sources.

    plamegate coming to conclusion. the investigation has focused mostly closely on vice president cheney and his staff, as well as us ambassador to the un (and former undersecretary of state for arms control) john bolton and his staff. we are told that eight indictments have already prepared, with the possibility of another ten. these indictments include senior white house staff, most notably vice president cheney's chief of staff scooter libby, fred flights (special assistant to john bolton), and--very surprisingly--national security adviser steve hadley. apparently, libby and hadley have both been told by their lawyers to expect indictments. the indictment of senior bush political advisor karl rove seems highly probable.

    most critically, a plea bargain process has evidently been opened with vice president cheney's lawyer. that does not mean that an indictment is coming. but i've some critical background around the issue.

    in the past several days, former secretary of state colin powell had a meeting with senator john mccain (R-AZ), primarily about the mccain-sponsored amendment on inserting a rider prohibiting torture onto the us defense budget (a bill which powell has himself been lobbying heavily for, against objections of president bush).

    during the meeting, powell recounted to the senator that he had traveled on air force one with bush and cheney, and brought to their attention a classified memorandum about the issue of whether there was indeed a transaction inolving niger and yellow cake uranium. the document included ambassador joe wilson's involvement and identified his wife, valerie plame, as a covert agent. the memorandum further stated that this information was secret. powell told mccain that he showed that memo only to two people--president and vice president. according to powell, cheney fixated on the wilson/plame connection, and plame's status.

    powell testified about this exchange in great length to the grand jury investigating the plame case. according to sources close to the case, powell appeared convinced that the vice president played a focal role in disclosing plame's undercover status.

    in his conversation with mccain, powell felt that--at a minimum--there would be a serious shakeup at national security council as a consequence. in particular, vice president cheney would no longer hold a pivotal role in us national security affairs. powell apparently did not discuss the potential of a cheney resignation.

    lead prosecutor patrick fitzgerald has apparently been looking at the precedent of formerly indicted nixon vice president spiro agnew. this shows the likely path, because addressing executive immunity and privilege questions would necessarily begin start with a plea-bargain deal that would entail a resignation.

    this is all likely to occur within the next week. 28 october (next friday) is the last day of the grand jury, and no requests have been made to extend their session. the investigator is expecting to wrap up by then.

    there are enormous implication for what would be the biggest white house shakeup since the iran-contra scandal in the reagan era. president bush's approval rating at 39% has already led to a significant decrease in policy efficacy with key legislators in congress. i'll spin out the broader policy implications when i have some time to write at greater length, but i wanted to get this out immediately.

    one interesting point though--it is worth noting that a parade of senior republican senators have evidently been privately pushing mccain to lobby to be cheney's replacement. senator lindsey graham (R-SC) has also been mentioned. meanwhile, the white house has already been developing countermeasures--notably including senior white house officials privately voicing president bush's disappointment in karl rove's involvement in the case, calling it "misconduct." an urgent search for a rove replacement is already underway.

    ***

  12. #12
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    This should be an exciting site in coming weeks...

    http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/index.html

  13. #13
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Full Story: http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/sh...1&postcount=80

    Bush at Bay

    By MARTIN WALKER
    UPI Editor

    http://www.upi.com/InternationalInte...3-104217-9679r


    WASHINGTON, Oct. 23 (UPI) -- The CIA leak inquiry that threatens senior White House aides has now widened to include the forgery of documents on African uranium that started the investigation, according to NAT0 intelligence sources.

    This suggests the inquiry by special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald into the leaking of the identity of undercover CIA officer Valerie Plame has now widened to embrace part of the broader question about the way the Iraq war was justified by the Bush administration ...

  14. #14
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    >>> The POLLS are CLOSED <<<


    WIREDNY has Spoken ... the WINNER is .............................


    The WHOLE PACK of SCOUNDRELS


    Including the biggest Ace of all ...

    Last edited by lofter1; November 16th, 2005 at 12:37 AM.

  15. #15
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    90% of Americans believe Bush Administration has acted illegally / unethically ...


    Poll: Few doubt wrongdoing in CIA leak

    CNN
    October 25, 2005

    http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/...eak/index.html


    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Only one in 10 Americans said they believe Bush administration officials did nothing illegal or unethical in connection with the leaking of a CIA operative's identity, according to a national poll released Tuesday.

    Thirty-nine percent said some administration officials acted illegally in the matter, in which the identity of Valerie Plame, a CIA operative, was revealed.

    The same percentage of respondents in the CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll said administration officials acted unethically, but did nothing illegal.

    The poll was split nearly evenly on what respondents thought of Bush officials' ethical standards -- 51 percent saying they were excellent or good and 48 percent saying they were not good or poor.

    The figures represent a marked shift from a 2002 survey in which nearly three-quarters said the standards were excellent or good and only 23 percent said they were fair or poor.

    The latest poll questioned 1,008 adults October 21-23 and has a sampling error of plus or minus 5 percentage points.

    Federal law makes it a crime to deliberately reveal the identity of a covert CIA operative, and special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is heading a probe into the matter. (Fitzgerald profile)

    With the grand jury investigating the leak set to expire Friday, FBI agents interviewed a Washington neighbor of Plame for a second time.

    The agents asked Marc Lefkowitz on Monday night whether he knew about Plame's CIA work before her identity was leaked in the media, and Lefkowitz told agents he did not, according to his wife, Elise Lefkowitz.

    Lefkowitz said agents first questioned whether the couple was aware of Plame's CIA work in an interview several months ago.

    Members of Fitzgerald's team also talked to a former White House official to gather last-minute information about the role of Karl Rove, President Bush's top political adviser, a source familiar with the conversation told CNN.


    CNN's Kelli Arena, Dana Bash and Suzanne Malveaux contributed to this report.

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