Proposed: 605 West 42nd Street at 11th Ave - by Costas Kondylis

**Eugenius** · July 31st, 2006, 02:44 PM

Yes, but since there doesn't seem to be a height restriction on this building, why not build it taller, without the slant? Instead of having floors 47-50 be 25% bigger than floor 10, why not add floor 51?

**pianoman11686** · July 31st, 2006, 03:45 PM

A ubiquitous comment on this forum. Why not go for more height? Why so much bulk? We keep getting the same answer: economics. But in this particular case, I find it hard to agree. The amateur engineer in me thinks it will be substantially costlier to build this building with that kind of slant to it, and it adds absolutely nothing to the design. Plus, add in the prospect of more 50-story apartment buildings going up in the immediate vicinity in the next few years, and you'd have to seem like a moron to miss the opportunity to build "the tallest one of the bunch," an 80 or 90-story tower.

Another thing that I just realized: this site seems to be zoned for 1.5 million square feet, yet the residential tower will be only 1 million, with retail comprising 200,000. Even assuming that the retail is listed separately from the residential, that still leaves 300,000 unaccounted for. Was there a trade that no one mentioned? Why the discrepancy?

**BrooklynRider** · July 31st, 2006, 04:35 PM

Will the retail comprise that corner lot as well? I thought Moinian bought the gas station lot as well. Will it perhaps be a retail complex at the base of this new building lining the 11th Ave corridor and wrapping around both West 42 and West 43rd?

**lofter1** · July 31st, 2006, 09:40 PM

I'm a bit confused by this image as it seem to show that the gas station site is included in the new building plot -- but that little shorty building at the bottom right (the lighter grey one) appears to be the existing 6 story on the SW corner of 11th / 43rd which I though was part of the site that was purchased for this development.

Or is the one I'm confused about actually the building across 43rd on the NW corner of 43rd / 11th?

Either way the base of this one appears to be far less substantial than the base at the Atelier.

**BrooklynRider** · July 31st, 2006, 10:03 PM

I was under the impression that Moinian had control of the SW corner of 43rd & 11th (or at least partnered with someone who did). I interpreted the project as occupying that entire edge of the block.

**lofter1** · July 31st, 2006, 10:51 PM

According to this if the gas station site is included then you're correct -- the new building will take up the whole 11th Ave block-front between 42nd / 43rd ...

The Moinian Group of 399 Park Ave. acquired the six-story Verizon Building at 563-569 Eleventh Ave. ... the new owner intends to demolish the building after the tenant, Verizon, vacates the site.

... Verizon would remain at this location until its lease expires at the end of the third quarter of next year. Shortly thereafter, this 75,000-square-foot, Class C, single-tenant office building, which was built in 1920, will be demolished to make way for residential condos.

**TREPYE** · August 1st, 2006, 12:08 PM

Boooring!

When all is set and done at the pace that we are headed (i.e. orion, atlier) the west side of 42nd street is going to be an ungliness that is only rivaled by co-op city in the Bronx. This not how a prime NYC area should be treated.

**alibrot** · August 1st, 2006, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by pianoman11686

Another thing that I just realized: this site seems to be zoned for 1.5 million square feet, yet the residential tower will be only 1 million, with retail comprising 200,000. Even assuming that the retail is listed separately from the residential, that still leaves 300,000 unaccounted for. Was there a trade that no one mentioned? Why the discrepancy?

there are so many numbers flying around in print. i think here is the reality...can someone confirm

the combined plot is 1.5M sq feet
atelier: ~500k sq feet
new "2" towers: ~1M sq feet (800k apartments, 200k retail)

**ld876** · August 1st, 2006, 04:54 PM

I live in the area, in River Place, which is probably 30x worse looking than this design. I think all the high rises and glass buildings in the area (and going up in the area) are exciting. I think it's great walking home from the dog park, seeing the tall line of the 42/43rd street buildings.

I just need my 7 line (well, and 6 years for it to be built) and I will be a happy camper!

**lofter1** · August 8th, 2006, 01:00 PM

Hey, pianoman ...

CURBED quoted you on this one today ...

Perhaps the Atelier, out there in East New Jersey, won't seem so lonely and forlorn next year after work begins on another Moinian Group condo tower on far West 42nd Street. There seems to be some confusion about whether it's actually one or two towers, but either way, doesn't it fit in so wonderfully with its neighbor, which also happens to be designed by architect Costas Kondylis? Notes a WiredNewYork commenter:

"Costas has managed to do something unthinkable for an architect of such mediocrity: create his own context. He puts up a building (or a few), then feigns contextuality when he designs more for the area."

But our favorite part is when the gloves come off toward the end of CityRealty's write-up:

While some observers have characterized the Moinian Group’s 42nd Street towers as flamboyant and colorful exercises in Miami style, it would be hard to not characterize them as “handsome” and “attractive,” much to the lament of some posters at wirednewyork.com who are convinced that CityRealty.com’s vocabulary is limited.

Rawr!

**pianoman11686** · August 8th, 2006, 01:40 PM

Thanks for the heads-up, lofter. I've always gotten the sense that Curbed loves to write about catfights like this one, and I guess I'm surprised they didn't catch it earlier. In any case, I'm glad to see my fame spreading, even if it is anonymous.

**Derek2k3** · January 4th, 2007, 01:58 AM

1-3-06

**MidtownGuy** · June 24th, 2007, 10:55 AM

I think all the high rises and glass buildings in the area (and going up in the area) are exciting. I think it's great walking home from the dog park, seeing the tall line of the 42/43rd street buildings.

Exciting like a car crash

The whole lineup is shamefully ugly for buildings that house well-off people. Just a lot of cheap looking crap being marketed to people with abundant money but short on good taste. You can look at this area and get pretty depressed thinking about the lack of civic pride these developers have, and the destruction being wrought on the city's overall appearance with all this garbage.

Imagine what this area could have looked like if all the development money pouring into it were actually applied with some class and a little bit of competent planning.

**Punzie** · June 24th, 2007, 11:24 AM

I moved your inquiry here (NY Real Estate), where the thread with the 'Lake Related" site is continuing:
http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showpo...&postcount=138

**ld876** · June 29th, 2007, 01:33 PM

I posted over in the Atelier thread, I didn't even see this when I was looking. Anyhoo...just a minor update picture, you can see some bricks coming down. As I said in the other thread, they must have sold the condos facing east because the buildings surrounding the gas station are coming down much faster (ie the units are sold, now we must remove your view, ha).