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Thread: 200 Greenwich Street - Proposed WTC Tower #2 - by Norman Foster

  1. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by antinimby
    You guys may not be too far off, at least in comparison to the FT in this model (I know, it is based on Libeskind's outdated model but it gives a hint to the scale). Just curious, what is that building between the FT and 200 GS?
    That low building is the location of the performing arts center, tentatively to be designed by Gehry, which is now in limbo.

    There has been no indication that 200 Greenwich will be set on a pedestal like the FT, especially since the base will contain retail. The floor-count of a building is not just office space; it usually starts at ground level and includes mechanical floors. The variables in the total height of the building are the floor-to-floor heights, the height of the mechanical floors (which can be double), the height of the base floors, and the height of the crown.

    Average floor height for office space is 14 ft. NYTimes is 13'9"; 7WTC is 14' 3".

    14 ft X 65 floors = 910 ft. A 3" increase in the floor height will add 20 ft to the building height. Add to that the increased floor heights of the base and mechanical floors. And add the crown. A simple flat roof like 7WTC will add at least 3 floors, but hopefully Foster will design something more distinctive. Expect pressure from Silverstein in this area; crowns are expensive and don't add rentable space.

    A good example of floor counts is the NYTimes stacking plan. Go to page 15 of the document.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    Expect pressure from Silverstein in this area; crowns are expensive and don't add rentable space.
    Oh Larry, pleease don't cheapen this one. I'll volunteer my time if it will help. I can also work a mean drill.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp

    Average floor height for office space is 14 ft. NYTimes is 13'9"; 7WTC is 14' 3".

    14 ft X 65 floors = 910 ft. A 3" increase in the floor height will add 20 ft to the building height. Add to that the increased floor heights of the base and mechanical floors. And add the crown.


    Yes, But if FT's 69th (really 75th since the base is made out of 6 mechanical floors) can reach 1140 feet than I suppose 65 floors + a few mechanical could reach 1100 or more.

    The tower will have 65 OFFICE floors, not 65 total. Just like Freedom Tower does not have 69 total, It has 82, 6 floors below and 7 ontop of the office space.

    Check this out.

  4. #49

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    The tower will have 65 OFFICE floors, not 65 total. Just like Freedom Tower does not have 69 total, It has 82, 6 floors below and 7 ontop of the office space.
    Point me to one piece of documentation that indicates that the base of this building will be similar to the FT, or that anyone stated there would be 65 office floors.

    On the other hand, Foster's own words:
    Foster, 70, said he wants residents and workers to have a welcoming feeling as they walk past the building. “It’s something that brings life,” he said in an interview at 7 World Trade Center, where he will set up his New York office. “It’s not just a blank wall. It’s not a private, corporate ‘keep out,’ so I’d like it to be inviting. I’d like it to be lively.”
    Is he describing a 200 ft high metal-clad concrete block?

    All the WTC buildings have 6 mechanical floors. They are below grade and are called basement levels. The twin towers were 110 floors from the street to the roof. Levels B1 - B6 did not count.

    Did you carefully look at the stacking plan example I provided? The Times building is 52 floors. Floor 1 is at the street. The floor numbering includes mechanical floors. It does not include the crown.

  5. #50

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    It’s ridiculous for anyone to make height predictions about a building that hasn’t even been designed yet.

  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by antinimby
    Oh Larry, pleease don't cheapen this one. I'll volunteer my time if it will help. I can also work a mean drill.

    I don't think Foster would have came one if he didn't think he could design the building he wanted to. But even so, its not as if Silverstein can write a blank check. Supposedly he has enought to build Tower 2, but you know how costs rise...

  7. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    Point me to one piece of documentation that indicates that the base of this building will be similar to the FT, or that anyone stated there would be 65 office floors.

    On the other hand, Foster's own words:
    Is he describing a 200 ft high metal-clad concrete block?

    All the WTC buildings have 6 mechanical floors. They are below grade and are called basement levels. The twin towers were 110 floors from the street to the roof. Levels B1 - B6 did not count.

    Did you carefully look at the stacking plan example I provided? The Times building is 52 floors. Floor 1 is at the street. The floor numbering includes mechanical floors. It does not include the crown.
    In one of the other threads there was info which said wtc1 will have 69 floors of office and that wtc2 will have 65 it also stated how much sf of space would be in each tower

  8. #53

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    I'll give this one more shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by alonzo-ny
    In one of the other threads there was info which said wtc1 will have 69 floors of office and that wtc2 will have 65 it also stated how much sf of space would be in each tower
    65... of what, office, or just floors?

    Example 1: 7WTC. It is described as a 52 floor building. It has 42 office floors on top of a 10 floor mechanical base. No one calls it a 42 floor building.
    http://www.silversteinproperties.com/dev_7wt_amen.htm

    Example 2:
    Go to the SOM site, http://www.freedomtower.som.com/site...r_content.html.
    Click on Project Overview.
    In the third paragraph:
    ...an 80 ft high public lobby is topped by a series of mechanical floors; together these form the 200 foot high building base. Sixty-nine office floors rise above the base to 1120 ft.
    SOM is describing the stacking plan.

    FT is not a 69 floor building; it is an 80-something floor building.

    In the press release for 200 Greenwich, the description of the building stated 65 floors, not 65 office floors. If that number is correct, then all you can say about the height of the building is that it will have to be over 900 ft. The final height over that figure is useless speculation.

    For me, 65 floors is great news. It means the building height will have to bust over the 750 ft range of surrounding buildings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antinimby
    Oh Larry, pleease don't cheapen this one. I'll volunteer my time if it will help. I can also work a mean drill.
    And, Larry, I can supervise him and tell him to work harder, drill deeper and stop whining when it gets cold outside. However, I will need to be paid.

  10. #55

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    wouldn't this look kind of weird scince the FT and this building would have close height. I would prefer the other buildings office space to be included to the FT. Anyway, this building looks promising and hopefully this building's desighn will make this site more impresive like it is suppose to be

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    I'll give this one more shot.



    65... of what, office, or just floors?

    Example 1: 7WTC. It is described as a 52 floor building. It has 42 office floors on top of a 10 floor mechanical base. No one calls it a 42 floor building.
    http://www.silversteinproperties.com/dev_7wt_amen.htm

    Example 2:
    Go to the SOM site, http://www.freedomtower.som.com/site...r_content.html.
    Click on Project Overview.
    In the third paragraph:

    SOM is describing the stacking plan.

    FT is not a 69 floor building; it is an 80-something floor building.

    In the press release for 200 Greenwich, the description of the building stated 65 floors, not 65 office floors. If that number is correct, then all you can say about the height of the building is that it will have to be over 900 ft. The final height over that figure is useless speculation.

    For me, 65 floors is great news. It means the building height will have to bust over the 750 ft range of surrounding buildings.

    Well they probably are not including the retail...and the building has not even been designed yet so no one really knows huh?

  12. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by PHLguy
    Well they probably are not including the retail...and the building has not even been designed yet so no one really knows huh?
    I very much agree with the last part of this sentence. Right now the building is still in the process of emerging from a sketch pad's heavy lines. Ill wait a couple of months until more concrete details are released and the nuts and bolts are hammered out before I guess as to a height.

  13. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    Point me to one piece of documentation that indicates that the base of this building will be similar to the FT, or that anyone stated there would be 65 office floors.

    On the other hand, Foster's own words:
    Is he describing a 200 ft high metal-clad concrete block?

    All the WTC buildings have 6 mechanical floors. They are below grade and are called basement levels. The twin towers were 110 floors from the street to the roof. Levels B1 - B6 did not count.

    Did you carefully look at the stacking plan example I provided? The Times building is 52 floors. Floor 1 is at the street. The floor numbering includes mechanical floors. It does not include the crown.
    i wish i could remember where it was but in one of the wtc/freedom tower threads was a table of all the wtc tower saying how many OFFICE floors were in each tower and how much office space too, will try to find it for you zippy

  14. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by alonzo-ny
    i wish i could remember where it was but in one of the wtc/freedom tower threads was a table of all the wtc tower saying how many OFFICE floors were in each tower and how much office space too, will try to find it for you zippy
    Ill put money on it, that the floor count given to each of the WTC Towers won't be the same when all is said and done. Perhaps one or two buildings will have the same floor count but that'll have more to do with convience than design.

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    This building is going to go through alot of changes even once we see what it will look like. Reguardless of the height ot design. I mean just look at what the Freedom tower went through!

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