Page 51 of 116 FirstFirst ... 4147484950515253545561101 ... LastLast
Results 751 to 765 of 1735

Thread: 200 Greenwich Street - Proposed WTC Tower #2 - by Norman Foster

  1. #751
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default

    As awkward as the old plaza between the original 1 & 2 WTC towers might have been it was a terrific place to hang out on a beautiful spring summer fall (and sometimes even winter) day. And there is no denying that, when one walked through the spaces between the low-rise 4 / 5 / 6 WTC buildings and saw those two towers standing offset and rising up seemingly forever, there was drama on hand.

    That was in part because the Towers rose somewhat separately from the City -- sitting as they did on what was then the City's far western edge. The later addition of the WFC buildiings seemed to add to their power -- almost as if Pelli's shorter grouping was needed to bolster the twins.

    In the new plan the balance of the WTC buildings will be at the opposite side of the site (the NE rather than the SW). As Lizbeth points out, the new buildings will be rising up cheek to jowl to each other and opposite the existing buildings along Church Street. No doubt there will be some sense of crowding there -- and very possibly this will indeed be "wrong".

    Interesting that there is a lot of discussion about the new Hudson Yards proposals in regard to how certain plans include a stretch of high rises along Tenth Avenue which will create a "wall" between HY and Midtown -- but that no such ruckus has been raised with the plan here. Will there be any more imposing "wall" in NYC than the one created by the line up of the eastern facades of 2, 3 & 4 WTC?

    Further: IMO the size and verticality of 2 WTC rising directly opposite St. Pauls (even with the set-back on the east side of 2 WTC) is an ill-conceived pairing.

    Also: The height of the base of 3 WTC -- taller on the building's north side than the highest point(s) of Calatrava's transportation hub next door -- is not as well thought through as it should be.

    All in all it seems that there are many (dozens?) of "little" design decisions (mistakes?) in the new WTC plan which will result in a built plan which ends up not working nearly as well as it should -- which means the area when completed may not be enjoyed and used to its maximum effect.

  2. #752

    Default

    Isn't tall buildings crammed together what Lower Manhattan is all about? What is the perfect height of 3s base? Same as the PATH? Lower? St Pauls has open space (the graveyard) between it and 2, how much space does it need? Will 2s base be that much taller than the old Trade Centre building that was in that position?

  3. #753
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default

    I'm talking about details -- and how these new buildings work together as a group. It's about visual rhythm and the way that these structures create a flow.

    In the original WTC the low-rise buildings of 5 & 6 WTC extended for a couple of blocks west of St. Pauls before 1 WTC rose up. The new 2 WTC has a low-rise section for ~ 1/2 block before that tower starts to rise. So the effect in the immediate area around St Pauls will be entirely different (the ugly tower of the new 12 Barclays which rises 1/2 block to the north of St. Pauls also adds to the effect that the little church will be at the bottom of a canyon).

    The north portion of the base of the new 3 WTC rises completely above the highest rib projections of Calatravas transportation hub, in a way framing the hub -- but also visually locking in the structure. IMO it would be better had the base been designed so that the set back was placed at some point below the top-most part of the hub structure.

    Like I said these are details that should (and could) be worked out between the individual archticects.

  4. #754

    Default

    I think the large gap between 2 and 3 where the Path station will be as well as Liberty Park diagonally across from 4 will alleviate the "wall" feeling.

  5. #755

    Default Hanging out?

    I really disagree with the notion that the WT Plaza was a great place to hang out. It was a terrible place to hang out. It was very very deserted almost always, and incredibly windy. If you are absolutely struck dead by architecture and forms, I suppose you could be on Mars and happy, but I know that humans avoided that space in droves. It was empty and I passed through (reluctantly to somewhere else) often enough.

  6. #756

    Default Vesey Street Staircase Headed to Memorial

    Just saw this on wtcrising.com. I don't believe I saw this posted on this forum.

    Amazing how much attention is given to these stairs which were seemingly left after the initial cleanup without any real reason. I thought I saw a proposal a few months ago to only preserve a few of the stairs and incorporate them into the staircase leading down to the memorial. Seemed like that proposal would have been acceptable to both sides.


    Vesey Street Staircase Headed to Memorial
    November 19, 2007

    The "survivor's staircase" is headed to the World Trade Center (WTC) memorial. The announcement was made in the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation's monthly board meeting on November 8th. Chairman Avi Schick said that the agency plans to extract the staircase, located in the northeast quadrant of the WTC site near Vesey Street, intact, and relocate it to the National 9/11 Memorial, now under construction in the southwest quadrant. The LMDC has prepared a Final Mitigation Plan regarding the Vesey Street Stair Remnant in accordance with the World Trade Center Memorial and Redevelopment Plan Programmatic Agreement. To see the Final Mitigation Plan, please click here.

    Source: LowerManhattan.info

  7. #757
    Forum Veteran TREPYE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    2,200

    Default

    Not too shaby. Too bad the best side does not face Brooklyn. :-/

    http://www.wtc.com/media/images/s/to...nderings?sid=1

  8. #758
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default

    Better crank up that fund raising mechanism -- this won't be cheap ...

    Quote Originally Posted by EugeneNYC View Post

    Vesey Street Staircase Headed to Memorial

    The "survivor's staircase" is headed to the World Trade Center (WTC) memorial ... relocate it to the National 9/11 Memorial, now under construction in the southwest quadrant.
    Final Mitigation Plan ...

    Pursuant to the Programmatic Agreement, on August 22, 2007,
    LMDC distributed to the consulting parties to the Programmatic
    Agreement (“Consulting Parties”) a proposed final mitigation plan (“Proposed Final
    Mitigation Plan”) to minimize adverse effects on the remaining portions of the former
    stairway and escalator support at Greenwich and Vesey Streets (“Vesey Street Stair
    Remnant”) identified on Exhibit F of the Programmatic Agreement. At the same time,
    LMDC provided written notice of a meeting of the Consulting Parties on September 5,
    2007 to review oral comments on the Proposed Final Mitigation Plan and a further
    opportunity for written comments on that Plan to conclude on September 21, 2007. The
    Proposed Final Mitigation Plan provided for permanent display of the full run of stairs
    from the Vesey Street Stair Remnant in a prominent location within the National
    September 11 Memorial & Museum at the World Trade Center (formerly, World Trade
    Center Memorial Foundation) (the “Museum”).

    ... the Final Mitigation Plan states that the run of stairs and “connector plate” at the top of the stairs will be
    stored on or in the immediate vicinity of the WTC Site during the construction period if
    such storage is feasible. In addition, the Final Mitigation Plan now indicates that portions
    of the “connector plate” will be installed on the Memorial Plaza in an area dedicated to
    survivors in proximity to the “Surviving Tree,” if such installation is feasible.

    LMDC shall facilitate and ensure that Port Authority and Museum will cooperate
    and engage appropriate consultants to: (1) extract intact and move the entire run of stairs
    and the “connector plate” at the top of the stairs; (2) store these elements on or in the
    immediate vicinity of the WTC Site until such time as they can be installed in their
    permanent locations, if such storage is feasible, and if such storage of any of these
    elements is not feasible, store those elements at Hangar 17; (3) return and install intact
    the run of stairs and a portion of the “connector plate” in the Museum in a central
    location between the grand staircase and escalator system leading down to bedrock, in a
    manner that ensures that visitors will be able to view the staircase as they descend down
    the grand staircase or escalator; (4) provide for meaningful incorporation of the story and
    significance of the staircase, and, if feasible, including part of the “connector plate,”
    within the “primary narrative” of the Museum; (5) return a portion of the “connector
    plate” to the at-grade Memorial Plaza along with interpretive signage in an area dedicated
    to survivors in proximity to the “Surviving Tree,” if feasible; and (6) maintain archival
    black and white photographic documentation of the staircase and additional photographic
    and video documentation of the staircase.

    LMDC believes that this Final Mitigation Plan will allow for permanent display
    of the character-defining elements of the Vesey Street Stair Remnant in a setting that will
    acknowledge and convey the importance of the resource. The Plan ensures that the
    remnant will form an integral part of the entire Memorial and Museum experience.
    LMDC also believes, based on its extensive review and its consultation with the
    Consulting Parties, that this Final Mitigation Plan constitutes reasonable and practicable
    steps to minimize or mitigate adverse effects to the degree consistent with the World
    Trade Center Memorial and Redevelopment Plan, sound engineering practice and
    relevant construction considerations, and is in keeping with the letter and spirit of the
    Programmatic Agreement.

  9. #759
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    in Limbo
    Posts
    8,976

    Default

    Leave it up to this city to save what needn't be and not save what should be.

  10. #760

    Default

    NOVEMBER 25, 2007

    May it rest in peace...








  11. #761
    The Dude Abides
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    NYC - Financial District
    Posts
    4,418

    Default

    For all the Foster naysayers out there, I challenge you to rationalize your criticisms in light of all the praise we've heaped on Nouvel recently for his MoMA design. In essence, it's the same approach: the building grows out of an irregular footprint and reaches an awkward, but powerful climax at its peak. They are equally unique designs, and while Nouvel's may be more graceful, he also had fewer limitations. Just remember whose idea it was to have the roofs sloping downward towards the memorial.

  12. #762
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default

    If all of the buildings that have been designed for the WTC site had the grace and power of Nouvel's MoMA design then I'd be jumping for joy.

    (The Rogers tower might turn out to be terrific.)

    But the two sites are really apples & oranges (commercial v. residential being one huge difference).

    Ultimately everything will be just fine no matter what goes up downtown, right

  13. #763
    Forum Veteran
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Battery Park City
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    Working on that slab of concrete the "Survivor's Staircase".
    Last edited by GreenwichBoy; March 19th, 2010 at 01:59 PM.

  14. #764
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default

    Extracting ‘Survivors Stairway’
    for a Home at the 9/11 Museum

    NY TIMES
    By DAVID W. DUNLAP
    January 17, 2008

    With the new World Trade Center rising clamorously around it, the last standing vestige of the old World Trade Center is about to be uprooted.

    In the last week, workers have cut openings into a concrete superstructure supporting 38 steps that once led from Vesey Street up to the north end of the sprawling Austin J. Tobin Plaza. Because hundreds of evacuees made their way down this route on Sept. 11, 2001, it is called the “survivors’ stairway.”

    Whether the stairway itself would survive was a question for the Pataki administration to ponder. It proposed to salvage individual steps but not the entire run of stairs, which stands where Tower 2 is to rise. Preservationists and survivors of the attack were dismayed by the plan.

    So was the Spitzer administration. In August, Avi Schick, the chairman of the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, proposed to extract the staircase whole from the surrounding concrete bulkhead, then reinstall it in the National Sept. 11 Memorial and Museum at ground zero.

    Preparations are under way to do just that.

    By late February, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the site, expects to build a steel framework beneath the five-foot-wide staircase.

    That will permit workers to isolate the stairs from the rest of the remaining Vesey Street structure, which includes a fragment of terrazzo paving from the Tobin Plaza, a sloping surface where two escalators once ran and an entrance to the Cortlandt Street station on the No. 1 subway line, which has been closed since 2001.

    Besides the staircase, workers will salvage part of the plaza pavement. A plywood barrier and several columns from the subway station will be taken to Hangar 17 at Kennedy International Airport, where large-scale 9/11 artifacts are kept.

    The rest of the structure will be demolished.

    “You have to do it with an extraordinary amount of care,” said Stephen Sigmund, chief of public and government affairs at the Port Authority.

    Once the staircase is atop its steel cradle, it will be jacked up and rolled to Vesey Street. It will stand opposite the small park outside 7 World Trade Center until it is lowered by crane to the museum’s principal floor, almost at bedrock.

    The steel framework will continue supporting the staircase in its permanent location. Though visitors will not be able to walk down the staircase remnant, they will pass it on a new staircase or escalator.

    “That ceremony of descent will be alongside the survivors’ stairway,” said Alice Greenwald, director of the memorial museum.

    The removal and reinstallation will cost about $1 million.

    One of the first to suggest this approach in 2006 — as a way of breaking the impasse between preserving the survivors’ stairway and proceeding with Tower 2 — was Robert Silman, a prominent engineer working as a consultant to preservation groups like the New York Landmarks Conservancy and the Municipal Art Society.

    “I’m confident they’ll get it right,” Mr. Silman said on Wednesday. “I think they’re very serious about doing a good job. I’ll say that now, because in the beginning, they were skeptical about doing the job at all. I have no quarrel with what’s being done.”

    Mr. Schick saw a practical side to the project. “It sends the message that we can honor the memory of that day, hear the voice of those who experienced 9/11 and reconcile that with development goals and the need to move forward,” he said.

    Ms. Greenwald found a more spiritual side to housing the staircase in the museum, saying, “It reinforces a fundamental curatorial message: We all live in a post-9/11 world and, in that sense, every one of us is a 9/11 survivor.”

    Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company

  15. #765
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default

    Visitors will be able to gaze in wonder (meaning not knowing what they are seeing) at the pseudo-stairway ...


    Once the staircase is atop its steel cradle, it will be ... lowered by crane to the museum’s principal floor, almost at bedrock.

    ... Though visitors will not be able to walk down the staircase remnant, they will pass it on a new staircase or escalator.

    “... ceremony of descent will be alongside the survivors’ stairway ...”
    That oddly-shaped lump of concrete won't have much meaning without the accompanyng sound & light effects.

    Bad decsions all around on this one.

Similar Threads

  1. Greenwich Village Preservation Watch - Be on the alert!
    By OKoranjes in forum New York Real Estate
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: June 24th, 2015, 04:17 AM
  2. Greenwich Street 'Restoration'
    By Kris in forum New York City Guide For New Yorkers
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: December 21st, 2013, 06:05 PM
  3. 165 Charles Street @ West Street - by Richard Meier
    By ASchwarz in forum New York Skyscrapers and Architecture
    Replies: 104
    Last Post: June 8th, 2010, 06:36 PM
  4. 497 Greenwich Street - Condo
    By Edward in forum New York Real Estate
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: February 3rd, 2006, 05:44 PM
  5. Director's Guild of America Tower -110 West 57th Street
    By londonlawyer in forum New York Real Estate
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: July 18th, 2003, 12:37 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Google+ - Facebook - Twitter - Meetup

Edward's photos on Flickr - Wired New York on Flickr - In Queens - In Red Hook - Bryant Park - SQL Backup Software