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Thread: The Lucida - 151 East 85th Street - Condo (UES) - by Cook + Fox

  1. #31
    Forum Veteran macreator's Avatar
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    I'm personally quite happy to see these crappy buildings, with for the most part equally crappy retail stores, being demolished. The rendering of the replacement tower for the Lex & 86th street site looks fantastic. Like a mini-Bloomberg creating a streetwall from the ruins of the mishmash.

  2. #32
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    You saw a new rendering? Please share.

    Sidenote: that midblock yellow building with the elaborate artwork fire escape just caught my eye, more so than the others. They should keep it and use the air-rights to build something on the corner instead.

  3. #33
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    you imagine them restored with cornices and window boxes and awnings... creating a relief from those excruciatingly bland, faceless condos nearby.
    that midblock yellow building with the elaborate artwork fire escape just caught my eye
    Yes, I can imagine, and they would look lovely. I guess those beautiful fire escapes will land in a trash heap somewhere.

    And we get yet another Barnes and Noble, how terribly exciting. Is that the measure of a neighborhood's worth? How sad and pathetic. Why do some people on this board, and the writer of that NY Post article, get so rapturous at the arrival of yet another crop of chain stores? I preferred it when every single Manhattan neighborhood didn't look the same, with the same tired collection of stores. Shopping in Union Square is now the same as shopping in Soho, which is the same as the Lincoln Center area, or anywhere else for that matter. This place is turning into Springfield on the Simpsons. Do people really need another Barnes and Noble? Heaven forbid they might have to go a few subway stops away to get their B&N crack-fix.
    Makes me want to barf. Into a properly bourgeois shopping bag, of course.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy
    Yes, I can imagine, and they would look lovely. I guess those beautiful fire escapes will land in a trash heap somewhere.

    And we get yet another Barnes and Noble, how terribly exciting. Is that the measure of a neighborhood's worth? How sad and pathetic. Why do some people on this board, and the writer of that NY Post article, get so rapturous at the arrival of yet another crop of chain stores? I preferred it when every single Manhattan neighborhood didn't look the same, with the same tired collection of stores. Shopping in Union Square is now the same as shopping in Soho, which is the same as the Lincoln Center area, or anywhere else for that matter. This place is turning into Springfield on the Simpsons. Do people really need another Barnes and Noble? Heaven forbid they might have to go a few subway stops away to get their B&N crack-fix.
    Makes me want to barf. Into a properly bourgeois shopping bag, of course.
    union square, soho, and upper east are worlds apart. i dont see what was so great about the stores that will disappear. much of the ethnic supermarkets and restaurants are already gone. we're left with generic cell phone store, hair salons, convenience stores, and the like. this doesnt make a block unique just because its a bunch of one-off stores. its just a different shade of grey.

    simply because a barnes and noble or other big box chain is the ANCHOR of an emerging shopping district doesnt mean the rest of the stores are cookiecutter. Like it or not, the big chains bring in the foot traffic that allow the truly unique one off stores to take the risk and open up. H&M brings in massive foot traffic that allow smaller specialty stores to exist.

    springfield on the simpsons? thats beyond exaggeration.

    soho is a very unique shopping district, so different from 5th ave. its a destination for people around the world.

    union square is a social district - NOT shopping - tons of unique bars and restaurants, and the park. it has its own character, and is a destination and home for students and many recent grads with all sorts of interests. a bookstore and whole foods will never change the character of union square.

    upper east at 86th is basically residential, with social areas centered around 2nd, and retail more on lex. its not too much of a destination in the 70s and 80s, and is there to serve the residents, much moreso after these buildings are built. nicer apts, and stores with wider appeal. once the big stores move in, other boutiques will open shop. and for every 7-11 there are 10 unique stores. you just notice 7-11 because the signs are so tacky.

    if there is one thing i am sick of on this board, it's those who wreak of jealousy of those who can afford these new luxury condos, putting them down as worthless drones brainwashed by the starbucks coffee they drink, void of any soul or personality, sucking the life out of real new yorkers every time they inhale.
    Last edited by alibrot; June 11th, 2006 at 02:34 AM.

  5. #35

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    Alibrot: you were doing fine there until you had to end it with:

    "it's those who wreak of jealousy of those who can afford these new luxury condos"

    Why reduce an interesting conversation to that kind of crap? ( BTW: If you´ve read a bit about Midtown´s life-style, I think most of the owners of those "luxury" condos would be jealous of his.)

    I fall somewhere in the middle on this, as far as retail goes.... but bad, cheap architecture? No excuse.

  6. #36

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    I'm sad to see these buildings razed. The stores in them were junk and the ones on the Lex side were not maintained well, but they were all nice. They all had nice moldings, etc. The buildings that should have been razed were the ones on the west side of Lex. just south of these that house, among other things, the Chirping Chicken. The ornamentation has been completely stripped from those buildings, and they're totally run-down.

    I really can't stand Gershon.

  7. #37

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    That is a magnificent group of buildings. That´s the New York we all fell in love with. They should´ve been landmarked and saved. No questions asked.

    Will anyone ever get out the easel to paint a painting of that grey balconied condo next door? I don´t think so.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio
    That is a magnificent group of buildings. That´s the New York we all fell in love with. They should´ve been landmarked and saved. No questions asked.

    Will anyone ever get out the easel to paint a painting of that grey balconied condo next door? I don´t think so.
    Worse still, Gershon's reflective glass building will not fit in in this area. At least Robert Stern's building on 86th and 3rd will be brick and limestone.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio
    I fall somewhere in the middle on this, as far as retail goes.... but bad, cheap architecture? No excuse.
    My thoughts exactly.

    This used to be such a vibrant, teeming district --a satellite downtown, like 34th Street Uptown. The German shops and restaurants provided flavor and (more than enough) heft to a genuine and gratifying sense of place, and around the corner on Second Avenue, Little Hungary added spice. All gone, all homogenized, so sad...This used to be a great place. Will it ever come back? Does it stand a chance under Gershon's scalpel?

    Does anyone have a picture of Stern's project?

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio
    Alibrot: you were doing fine there until you had to end it with:

    "it's those who wreak of jealousy of those who can afford these new luxury condos"

    Why reduce an interesting conversation to that kind of crap? ( BTW: If you´ve read a bit about Midtown´s life-style, I think most of the owners of those "luxury" condos would be jealous of his.)

    I fall somewhere in the middle on this, as far as retail goes.... but bad, cheap architecture? No excuse.
    I added this not directly at Midtown, but at all the cheap shot comments at the faceless buyers of high end condos (well, only the condo that people dont want built...i have never seen a cheap shot at Orion buyers). Midtown said what he doesnt like about the board, and I said what I didnt like. It was basically a combination of all the negativity i have heard.

    Big box stores are great sometimes, but the big box stores that come in with tacky signs that look ugly in NYC, but are OK when they sit atop signs on the interstate. Home depot in the bloomberg builing is a good example. Any 7-11 or McD's. There is a McD's on 57th street that has a more subtle storefront. This is the way things should go more often. But I guess ill get used to it. The first time you see it it's so out of place.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc
    My thoughts exactly.

    This used to be such a vibrant, teeming district --a satellite downtown, like 34th Street Uptown. The German shops and restaurants provided flavor and (more than enough) heft to a genuine and gratifying sense of place, and around the corner on Second Avenue, Little Hungary added spice. All gone, all homogenized, so sad...This used to be a great place. Will it ever come back? Does it stand a chance under Gershon's scalpel?

    Does anyone have a picture of Stern's project?
    The Hungarian and German butcher shops and restaurants arent all gone. The loss of their dominance is sad but this project isnt replacing a single one of them. This project is replacing Dollar Stores, Pharmacies, Cellphone Stores, cheap work clothing stores, the like. Since I live in the neighborhood I can honestly say that although I will miss one or two stores I am glad that the majority of them are being replaced. Since 86th street isn't a big tourist area, its the main commercial thoroughfare for the residential area that surrounds it, the shops that will be built will reflect the community needs.

  12. #42

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    Stern, I wasn't commenting on this project's immediate site --I agree the shops there are all crap-- but the area in general, which has been for a decade or two a mere shadow of its former self. It was, as you say, never a tourist area --if what you mean by tourists are out-of-towners. For West Siders like myself it offered alcoholic entertainment, a place to shake your booty, and find a mate. And hard though it may be to believe today, it served that function for folks from all around town. I know Dorrian's Red Hand is still around, but most of its peers have long since vanished.

    As for Little Hungary, it used to abound with restaurants where you could get a great, cheap meal. If there's even one left, I'd be surprised. Maybe the Mocca?

    .
    Last edited by ablarc; June 11th, 2006 at 01:01 PM.

  13. #43

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    "...the shops that will be built will reflect the community needs."

    That´s not the way modern retail always works. Another Duane Reade, another Starbucks, another Gap. Whether those stores make their rent at a particular location isn´t always important.

    The neighborhood might respond wonderfully to a laundramat, a butcher shop, an ice-cream shop, a shoe-repair, a tailor, a barber shop, ...whatever...genuinely reflecting community needs.... but the high priced rents and huge spaces that modern condos offer can usually only be filled with chains and banks and so on.

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc
    Stern, I wasn't commenting on this project's immediate site --I agree the shops there are all crap-- but the area in general, which has been for a decade or two a mere shadow of its former self. It was, as you say, never a tourist area --if what you mean by tourists are out-of-towners. For West Siders like myself it offered alcoholic entertainment, a place to shake your booty, and find a mate. And hard though it may be to believe today, it served that function for folks from all around town. I know Dorrian's Red Hand is still around, but most of its peers have long since vanished.

    As for Little Hungary, it used to abound with restaurants where you could get a great, cheap meal. If there's even one left, I'd be surprised. Maybe the Mocca?

    .
    Yeah Mocca, Andre's and a few others. The Hugarian butcher shop still exists as well. I used to feel the same way as you that new development was pushing out ethnic neighborhoods. In fact development only plays a little part in ethnic neighborhoods like little Germany and little Hungary slow decline. Recently one of the most famous Hungarian restaurants closed in the high 70’s and Second Avenue. The restaurant closed almost a year ago and is still closed and is for rent. It was not pushed out by higher rents; other shops in the same building are still open. The fact is that Hungarian and German immigrants are no longer flowing into the United States and second and third generations fully consider themselves Americans. They are not as interested in their ancestor’s history, as rich as it may be. Second and third generation German and Hungarian Americans are raised and are eager to establish themselves as Americans, as such they would rather eat and shop at American establishments.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stern
    Second and third generation German and Hungarian Americans are raised and are eager to establish themselves as Americans...
    ...and even quixotically run for President, like our good Governor.

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