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Thread: Transcendental Cartoons

  1. #211

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    I did not know ablarc was "a fervent Christain".

    Well we learn something new here about the members of this forum everyday from Midtown.

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post
    So it's like the link request again...if no one out of the small number of people commenting on this thread see it as bigoted, I guess that is supposed to mean something. Meanwhile, tell us, why couldn't you qualify the statement with the word "some". If you are not lumping Muslims in one big pool of agreement, couldn't you at least do that?
    Because I believe the statement is perfectly fine as is.

  2. #212
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    Guess you don't read much around here? Ablarc has, on numerous occasions, shared his thoughts on the matter.

    In case you need the definition in English:
    fervent: having or showing great warmth or intensity of spirit, feeling, enthusiasm

  3. #213
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    Because I believe the statement is perfectly fine as is.
    I'm happy for you, but do not deny that it IS a generalization.

  4. #214
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    But whatever. The only thing thes world actions tell me is that Human Beings stink. They are duplicitous, self interested little mongrels that do their best to try and diefy their own desires and actions. It takes many forms, but always boils down to the fact that we are far from perfect but somehow find the need to say something is and we should all follow it.
    Agreed. The extremists come in all flavors, Muslim and CHRISTIAN TOO.

  5. #215

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    Midtown I know English well enough to know what "fervent" + "Chistian" means.

    And I know it well enough to know that the phrase: "The fact that there is such fear (or is it agreement?) among Muslims to condem such things in today's world tells us quite a bit." does not require the word "some". The choice of the term "among Muslims" takes care of that.

  6. #216
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    If you are not lumping all Muslims together, your meaning would indeed have been more clear by inclusion of the word "some", or any other qualifying word that would tell us you acknowledge the Muslims who think otherwise. As it was stated, it was a generalization. Period. If that was not your meaning, just say so, and we can move on...another thing I'd like to understand is why you haven't acknowledged that Christians are known to make death threats too.
    Last edited by MidtownGuy; April 27th, 2010 at 02:45 PM.

  7. #217

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    (my apologies to the forum)

    "If you are not lumping all Muslims together, your meaning would indeed have been more clear by inclusion of the word "some", or any other qualifying word that would suggest there are also Muslims who think otherwise."

    ^ Brings pedantic to a new level. Uh... the qualifying word is "among".

    (A kid'll eat ivy too. Would'nt you?)
    Last edited by Fabrizio; April 27th, 2010 at 02:52 PM.

  8. #218
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    No, it just shows how generalized your statement was, and how easily it could have been written otherwise.

    But it's OK, I take your word for it now that you realize there are plenty of Muslims that think otherwise. But wait, if that's the case, why did you ask for a link to Muslim disagreement, as if it none exists? What was your point then? Because it is getting lost.
    Last edited by MidtownGuy; April 27th, 2010 at 02:55 PM.

  9. #219
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    fabrizio:
    The real point is that the art works were indeed shown and were not supressed. And no death threats either...
    Now about those death threats...you aren't saying Christians don't make them, right?


    And about this:
    Will you please show me the outpouring of disgust by Islamic Imams over the hanging of 2 teenage boys in Iran for being homosexual?
    You still haven't shown me your "outpouring of disgust" at the Vatican's position on the death penalty for gays... a protest, a link, a statement, anything? And if you don't, does that mean you're in agreement with all of it?
    Last edited by MidtownGuy; April 27th, 2010 at 03:10 PM.

  10. #220

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post
    fabrizio:Now about those death threats...you aren't saying Christians don't make them, right?

    Read my posts. I mentioned Christian death threats.

    ---------

    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post
    I'm glad that the death penalty for homosexuality is such a point of concern in the above posts... but just a couple of years ago, there was a proposed U.N. resolution that called on governments around the world to stop the criminalization and death penalty for homosexuality. The Vatican opposed it. Fabrizio...since you're obviously so concerned about the Iranian death penalty for gays, I assume you were in Rome protesting the Vatican position on the matter as emphatically as you hold up the case of the Iranians. Silence is agreement according to you, right? So, I assume you were there in public, displaying your outpouring of disgust against the Church's position. Bravo. Send me the link.
    Actually in a statement about the resolution the Church said it: "opposed the death penalty and other harsh repression of gays and lesbians" and ""The Holy See continues to advocate that every sign of unjust discrimination towards homosexual persons should be avoided and urges States to do away with criminal penalties against them."

    However the Church did not sign on.

    Please note as you wrote: "there was a proposed U.N. resolution that called on governments around the world to stop the criminalization and death penalty for homosexuality."

    While the tiny Holy See is "a country" it also *is* the Vatican, a religion. Which would have made the Catholic Church the only world-wide religion to be signing. It is understandable that the Church would stay out of this. The church is already against "the criminalization and death penalty for homosexuality."

    Now, that is the Church's excuse for not signing on: but note the controversy about the declaration even for the US which was against signing on until Obama was elected:

    http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/US_suppo...ts_declaration

    Here's list of those that signed and those that opposed and a bit about the Vatican's stance on the subject:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_decl...ender_identity
    Last edited by Fabrizio; April 27th, 2010 at 04:40 PM.

  11. #221
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    I'm glad you made the 4:27 edit, realizing that we will sign under Obama. That isn't what you had written at first. But I'm glad you've updated your knowledge a bit. You previously wrote something about the US not signing on, and asking me "what's your excuse?" Hmmm....

    My answer to your deleted question would have been: crazy Christians in charge.

    The Church did not oppose the UN resolution.
    Now who is spinning? They didn't sign it either, did they?

    And according to the link you just provided:
    "Vatican City also opposes the resolution but on its introduction made a statement condemning legal discrimination against LGBT persons,"

    They opposed it. Now spin some more. Tell us how not signing conveys support.

  12. #222
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    Read my posts. I mentioned Christian death threats.
    I just want to make clear...you do acknowledge there are Christian death threats against people, right? And that art exhibits have been closed down, right?

  13. #223

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    They opposed the resolution, while making the statement that it "opposes the death penalty and other harsh repression of gays and lesbians". So whatever.

    Also note in the list of opposing states the Holy See is not listed. So I don't know what that is all about.

    you asked:
    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post
    You still haven't shown me your "outpouring of disgust" at the Vatican's position on the death penalty for gays.
    I agree with Church's position.

  14. #224
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    When I used the word "oppose" it wasn't "spin". I was about to ask you to do a simple google search.
    If you type in "Vatican opposed UN resolution death penalty", and press your return key, you will see the repeated use of the word "opposed".

    opĚpose
    –verb (used with object)
    1.
    to act against or provide resistance to; combat.
    2.
    to stand in the way of; hinder; obstruct.
    3.
    to set as an opponent or adversary.
    4.
    to be hostile or adverse to, as in opinion: to oppose a resolution in a debate.
    5.
    to set as an obstacle or hindrance.
    6.
    to set against in some relation, esp. as to demonstrate a comparison or contrast: to oppose advantages to disadvantages.
    7.
    to use or take as being opposite or contrary.
    8.
    to set (something) over against something else in place, or to set (two things) so as to face or be opposite to one another.


    ^take your pick.



    I agree with Church's position.
    Please tell us, in your own words, what that is.
    The statements I've read from the Vatican trying to explain it are pure doublespeak.

    In any case, I think it's pretty clear that you talk a good game about intolerance on the other side of the world, but when it's in your own backyard, we get excuses.
    Last edited by MidtownGuy; April 27th, 2010 at 08:43 PM.

  15. #225

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    I wish I were clever enough to come up with a joke about this thread's tendency toward cartoonish transference...

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