Page 23 of 25 FirstFirst ... 1319202122232425 LastLast
Results 331 to 345 of 363

Thread: Transcendental Cartoons

  1. #331

    Default Ceci n'est pas un concours.

    Regarding lofter1's posting of the Reason contest winners, there is one which seems familiar...





    ...but art is fundamentally derivative by nature.

  2. #332
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default

    How The Taliban See The War

    The Daily Dish
    24 MAY 2010 04:34 PM

    Packer reviews the memoir of Abdul Salam Zaeef, who served as Afghanistan's ambassador to Pakistan during Taliban rule. Zaeef was detained for three years at Gitmo and released without charge. Packer calls his memoir, My Life with the Taliban "perhaps the best, and maybe even the only, way for readers here to begin to grasp the world view of this xenophobic and opaque movement."

    Keep in mind that Zaeef is sometimes referred to as a moderate:

    The Americans have won the hatred of all Afghans, he concludes, and will lose the war as the Soviets lost theirs: the whole world is turning away from the U.S. and coming to see the justice of the Islamic cause. Like any religious revolutionary, Zaeef is certain that history and faith will soon rhyme. His entire story is saturated in righteousness; all the hardships he endures are redeemed by the solidarity of the faithful, whose superiority to non-Muslims is taken for granted. Zaeef doesn’t even pay lip service to the notion of equal rights for all: the only outrage is what’s done to Muslims, because they are Muslims and better than the rest of humanity. This world view is founded on such chauvinism that Americans, with our automatic assumptions about equality, might fail to notice it. “My Life with the Taliban” shows that, while all wars are foolish, some wars are not a matter of mere misunderstanding—that beneath the superficial differences of clothing and facial hair lie more profound differences that can’t be reconciled.

  3. #333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 212 View Post
    In your estimate, what number of the world's 1.5 billion Muslims are fanatics?
    Between a third and a fifth.

  4. #334
    I admit I have a problem
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    North Koreatown
    Posts
    532

    Default

    ^ Ablarc, I think your natural impulse is to be fair.

    I'd agree that a lot of Muslims are intolerant toward other religions. A lot fewer have directly supported any kind of violence against other people with other beliefs.

    As always, the question is how to empower those in the middle and marginalize the extremists.

    I'm pretty sure that anti-Islamic discrimination (most blatantly the minaret ban) has the opposite effect.

  5. #335
    I admit I have a problem
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    North Koreatown
    Posts
    532

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    Oh and back to my question: "Why is the Burqua and hijab (Muslim headscarf) banned in public places in Tunisia and Turkey, both countries with a majority Muslim population?"
    Different countries have different social contracts.

    Religious pluralism and expression are guaranteed in the United States -- it's in the Bill of Rights. Postwar Europe also has a tradition of pluralism. Take the European Charter of Fundamental Rights:

    "Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right includes freedom to change religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or in private, to manifest religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance."
    I'm personally ambivalent about hijab, and I think the burqa is terrible. But deviating from religious tolerance to specifically ban an Islamic practice harms our liberty.
    Also, I think it will most likely backfire. Discrimination tends to radicalize people.

  6. #336

    Default

    " But deviating from religious tolerance to specifically ban an Islamic practice harms our liberty. "


    ^Then the Islamic practice of multiple wives, forced marraige and genital mutilation is OK too?

  7. #337

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 212 View Post
    ^ Ablarc, I think your natural impulse is to be fair.
    I think when you accept the hospitality of a country you have labored long and hard to enter legally … you owe that country some allegiance. And that has ALWAYS meant jettisoning certain customs in order to fit in. If you don’t believe that, try a spaghetti al carne in the USA vs. one in Florence. Italian-Americans fit in.

    I'd agree that a lot of Muslims are intolerant toward other religions. A lot fewer have directly supported any kind of violence against other people with other beliefs.
    Isn’t that a little like praising most folks for not doing genocide? Could we expect more?

    Quote Originally Posted by 212 View Post
    As always, the question is how to empower those in the middle and marginalize the extremists.
    Because the ones in the middle are moderate, they’re susceptible to threats from others that they themselves –out of common decency—would never threaten.

    I'm pretty sure that anti-Islamic discrimination (most blatantly the minaret ban) has the opposite effect.
    Oh, I dunno … minarets take different shapes in different places. You can tell Sarajevo is a Muslim city by its traditional minarets (is it in fact so much a Muslim city?); if you were Swiss, I’m sure you wouldn’t want Zurich looking like an Islamic city. After all, a guy with a megaphone doesn’t really need a neo-Turkish tower to get his message out; he could be operating out of the 17th story of an office building.

    I think it’s time, when folks emigrate to a host country, for them to recognize that the rules of courtesy call for a modicum of adherence to local customs. The problem, of course, occurs when the Koran –a blueprint for world conquest—foresees that” local custom” will in time be “universal custom.”

    So … why bother?

  8. #338

    Default

    ^ "I think it’s time, when folks emigrate to a host country, for them to recognize that the rules of courtesy call for a modicum of adherence to local customs. "

    Did you all see the newscasts of the American mothers in Iran to meet their children held in jail over there?

    All of them... including the daughter being held in jail... were shown wearing head scarves. Iran, as with other Islamic countries, has a tradition which on their soil we are required to respect.

    The respect should be reciprocal.

  9. #339

    Default

    You're forgetting God.

    He's said by muslims to be in charge both there and here and everywhere.

    Whereas to us, he's just someone in whom we vaguely trust (according to the dime).

    This is a religious war in which only one side is really religious.

    Since our becoming religious fanatics is undesirable, the path before us is to get these folks to either abandon their benighted religion or modify it so it's not such a menace in the 21st Century.

  10. #340
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default

    What is the way to respond to an opposing force when those with the power think this way?

    Like any religious revolutionary, Zaeef is certain that history and faith will soon rhyme. His entire story is saturated in righteousness; all the hardships he endures are redeemed by the solidarity of the faithful, whose superiority to non-Muslims is taken for granted. Zaeef doesn’t even pay lip service to the notion of equal rights for all: the only outrage is what’s done to Muslims, because they are Muslims and better than the rest of humanity. This world view is founded on such chauvinism that Americans, with our automatic assumptions about equality, might fail to notice it. “My Life with the Taliban” shows that, while all wars are foolish, some wars are not a matter of mere misunderstanding—that beneath the superficial differences of clothing and facial hair lie more profound differences that can’t be reconciled.
    In matters of the world, what course to take when dealing with irreconcilable differences?

  11. #341

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    What is the way to respond to an opposing force when those with the power think this way?

    In matters of the world, what course to take when dealing with irreconcilable differences?
    Seduction.

    It's also called love.

    If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

    Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

    Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

    When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

    And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
    Last edited by ablarc; May 25th, 2010 at 12:10 PM.

  12. #342

    Default

    From the Koran:

    Fight against such of those to whom the Scriptures were given as believe neither in Allah nor the Last Day, who do not forbid what Allah and His apostle have forbidden and do not embrace the true faith until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued. Sura 9:29

    Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate. Sura 9:73

    Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship will become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrongdoers. Sura 5:51

    Mohammed is Allah’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Sura 48:29

  13. #343

    Default

    The issue is cut and dry:

    If you're not a believer, you have an implacable enemy.

  14. #344
    I admit I have a problem
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    North Koreatown
    Posts
    532

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    " But deviating from religious tolerance to specifically ban an Islamic practice harms our liberty. "


    ^Then the Islamic practice of multiple wives, forced marraige and genital mutilation is OK too?
    Of these, only allowing multiple wives is really an "Islamic practice". Forced marriage and genital mutilation are cultural practices in some Islamic societies (not all), and also in non-Islamic societies.

    To answer your question directly: We stand by human rights over religious/cultural practices when they conflict.

  15. #345
    I admit I have a problem
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    North Koreatown
    Posts
    532

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    What is the way to respond to an opposing force when those with the power think this way?

    Like any religious revolutionary, Zaeef is certain that history and faith will soon rhyme.
    In matters of the world, what course to take when dealing with irreconcilable differences?
    Zaeef was spokesman for one of the world's worst regimes. He was a paid liar in denying al Qaeda's role in the 9/11 attacks. Opposing him is the right thing to do.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Google+ - Facebook - Twitter - Meetup

Edward's photos on Flickr - Wired New York on Flickr - In Queens - In Red Hook - Bryant Park - SQL Backup Software