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Thread: Trump SoHo - 246 Spring Street - Hotel and Condo - by Handel Architects

  1. #31

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    "You seem to forget that Trump has been trying to build towers much taller than the Trump Chicago in New York for decades. You can't blame Trump because Chicago was more open to building taller highrises..."

    Forget the height, what about design quality.... he´s calling himself an "artist" for gosh sakes ...and blaming NYC community groups for killing his creativity and beautiful designs. Well, then why is it that others are building beautiful buildings all round the city?

    Also: I´d just bet that a city like Philadelphia gave him free reign.... and that´s the best he can come up with?

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio
    Forget the height, what about design quality.... he´s calling himself an "artist" for gosh sakes ...and blaming NYC community groups for killing his creativity and beautiful designs. Well, then why is it that others are building beautiful buildings all round the city?

    Also: I´d just bet that a city like Philadelphia gave him free reign.... and that´s the best he can come up with?
    Well, Trump is no architect. And even if he were, being an architect does not guarantee good design. His projects have revitalized a lot of areas, and he's given new life to a lot of existing buildings. The more he builds, the better.

    Also, there are a lot of buildings going up around the city. I wouldn't go putting the majority of them in the "beautiful buildings" category just yet.

  3. #33

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    Nyguy:


    "Well, Trump is no architect. And even if he were, being an architect does not guarantee good design."

    Nowhere in my post do I call him an architect. However, reread his quote on page 1 of this thread where he blames the power of community groups in NYC for squashing his good designs: "The originality of the architecture gets taken away from me as a developer and artist..."

    Fine. He´s the one calling himself an "artist". I simply want to see his "original" and "artistic" designs... you know, the ones he´s done in other cities, ...cities that are more hospitable than NYC. If you would post them, I´d appreaciate it.

    "His projects have revitalized a lot of areas, and he's given new life to a lot of existing buildings".

    May very well be so... but thats not the point here.

    "Also, there are a lot of buildings going up around the city. I wouldn't go putting the majority of them in the "beautiful buildings" category just yet."

    Nowhere do I say that the "majority" of the buildings going up around the city are in the "beautiful buildings" catagory... but despite those "powerful" community groups, NYC is having a building BOOM and beautiful buildings certainly do get built... and right now we are seeing quite a few of them.

  4. #34

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    Developers, architects, opposition groups, and local regulations all influence the design of a building, but it is the developer that sets the bar with his checkbook. A good developer will determine a reasonable ROI to attract investment, and hire the necessary talent to work within his budget. But if the overriding goal is to squeeze as much profit as possible, a less costly design will emerge, and cheaper materials will be used. The result is usually underwhelming.

    Compare Beekman St and 2 Gold St. Beekman got the most opposition. The only complaint at 2 Gold was the demolition of the little Pearl St building, and it took arm-twisting to get the developer to incorporate the facade into the design. Despite Liberty Bond financing, the developer produced an uninspired building.

    Typical for Trump (see his WTC recommendations), his remarks are usually self-serving distortions.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    Typical for Trump (see his WTC recommendations), his remarks are usually self-serving distortions...
    ...with a kernel of truth.

  6. #36

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    Not at all.

    His description of the worst piece of crap architecturewas accompanied by an endorsement of another peice of crap architecture, the Gardner WTC. The whole thing was media hype for the Apprentice.

  7. #37

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    From my own experience I can easily sympathize with this statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by Trump
    I win many battles with community boards, but the project that is completed is never as good as what I started with. It gets beaten and battered by people who are often more interested in hearing themselves talk than in what is best for the city. The originality of the architecture gets taken away from me as a developer and artist, and from the city.
    I'd subsitute "rarely" for "never" in the above quote. And it's easy to object to his calling himself an artist --he is after all an egomaniac-- but that doesn't need to blind us to some core truth he's articulating.

  8. #38
    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    Trump is ‘fired’ up about Hudson Square hotel located near tunnel


    The Villager
    Volume 75, Number 39 | February 15 -21 2006

    The Downtown residential-conversion craze has reached the hotel market with Donald Trump and Shaya Boymelgreen both flirting with hotel projects of their own.

    Trump is “in the final stages of negotiations on a site” near the Holland Tunnel, the real estate mogul told the New York Post, adding he’ll have more information as he finalizes his plans. His plans will likely include a 50-story hotel/residential complex that will rival Trump International Hotel & Tower on Central Park West.

    Trinity Real Estate, the major property owner in the Hudson Square area, did not return a call by press time asking if they were involved in the Trump deal.

    Meanwhile, Downtown real estate mogul Boymelgreen has hotel plans of his own for 23 Wall St., a 200,000-square-foot, six-level office building. Boymelgreen would like to transform the space into a high-end, European-style mall with a salon and spa on the top three levels, according to his broker, Alice DiMarzio of Newmark Knight Frank, reports Slatin Report. The rooftop could be used as a garden for the residents of neighboring 15 Broad St., a Boymelgreen residential conversion designed by Philippe Starck. But, if the mall plan doesn’t fly, Boymelgreen could make 23 Wall St., which he nearly sold to New York Law School in 2004, into a high-end boutique hotel.

  9. #39

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    Trinity Real Estate owns 417 Canal St. It sits between Varick St and the small piece of Sullivan St that was isolated when 6th Ave was cut through the neighborhood.

    A few years ago, there was a project for the building which included demapping the street and make a connection with the threadbare Duarte Square. I don't know if the building is empty, but the first floor lease was not renewed, and I think it is still empty.

    This site is highly visible, and would raise the bar achitecturally.


    417 Canal is the 8 story building on the left.

  10. #40
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    417 Canal ^ abuts a cleared parcel on the north side of that block: 76-78 Varick (aka 3-9 Grand St.) -- also owned by Trinity Properties ( http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/sh...5&postcount=22 ).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #41
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    What are the city's plan (and the timeline) for Duarte Square (which I'm assuming to be that empty square in the center of the photo)? They really need to fix it up because it really looks barren and unsightly. Not a good first sight of the city for visitors coming out of the Holland Tunnel.

  12. #42

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    A 50 story building in this area would look out of place. 25 would be the most stories that would look ok in my opinion.

  13. #43
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    I'm fine with the height. The taller the building, the longer the shadow falling on Canal Street. And, the more shade on Canal Street, perhaps the less stink from baking in humid sun all day in summers.

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    ....
    Is the empty triangular lot the land on which the new park will be built (i.e., the area bordered by Canal, Varick and Laight)?

  15. #45
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    The triangular plot is to be a park; it was to be called "Renaissance Park" and has been stalled for quite some time (Duarte Square is the long narrow park that runs along the west side of 6th Avenue from Canal north to Spring St.).

    Funding for the triangular park (along with funds ofr other downtown parks) has just been announced: http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/sh...1&postcount=71
    Governors are often given to enthusiasm and grand thoughts, but yesterday afternoon heaps of enthusiasm and really grand thoughts were required to envision the glorious future of the no-name, rubble-strewn lot that is bounded by Canal, Varick and Laight Streets in Lower Manhattan.

    "I see a park with a lot of green," Gov. George E. Pataki said as he gazed at the wire-fenced wasteland before him. "There will be trees." He envisioned a fountain. And flower beds. "No more chicken-wire fences."

    Mr. Pataki stopped at the park on the eve of an announcement expected today by the 16-member board of the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation to authorize the spending of $19.5 million to enhance six parks and public spaces in Lower Manhattan, including the triangular Canal Street plot with its frozen weeds.
    An older design for the site ( http://www.tribecatrib.com/newssept04/park-design.htm ) :






    More background: http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_98/signsoflife.html

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