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Thread: Trump SoHo - 246 Spring Street - Hotel and Condo - by Handel Architects

  1. #1171
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    Quote Originally Posted by infoshare View Post
    That opposition comes primarily form a small 'cabal' of highly vocal community 'activists' . I know most of them personally - so I know of what I speak.
    Here's a statement that ought to be checked for veracity. It's a, "Trust me - I know more than you," kind of post. These are always interesting in that they offer nothing to the dialogue.

    As Infoshare, himself, posted elsewhere:

    Quote Originally Posted by infoshare View Post
    ...people do (and can) post ‘hot air’ on these forums: there is no way we can confirm or deny the truth of many of the claims
    Pot meet Kettle.

  2. #1172

  3. #1173

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    Here are some interesting facts regarding DiFama.
    The financier behind DiFama is Gary Felsher. He got them the big jobs through
    his connections with the big Manhattan developers, especially Stephen Ross,
    Chairman of the Related Companies. Ross receives personal payment from Felsher
    in exchange for Related giving DiFama business.

    Felsher was put together with Joseph Fama and Anthony De Luca by Samuel Kaplan,
    a Lucchese friend. Samuel Kaplan's son happens to be Barry Kaplan, head of the
    concrete union in Manhattan. Both Kaplans are paid by DiFama.

    If the government thinks they made a dent in Difama's mob association and union
    corruption, they are sorely mistaken. Felsher held things together, and
    actually grew the business, while De Luca and Fama did/do their time for
    racketeering, etc. Fama and De Luca are still owners, and run the labor aspect
    of the business. Disassociation from DiFama was only on paper.

    DiFama's sorry history of safety violations and injuries is caused by negligence
    of Felsher, as the true owner. Untoward union influence from the top, as well
    as strong-arming by Lucchese associates makes DiFama work sites dangerous, and
    puts the ordinary worker at risk. Sometimes with deadly consequences. But
    personal greed and the owners' criminality outweigh that.
    Quote Originally Posted by brianac View Post
    City's Toughened Stance on Construction Site Safety Raises Ire

    By PETER KIEFER
    Staff Reporter of the Sun
    March 10, 2008
    Konrad Fiedler
    Trump SoHo, at the corner of Varick and Prince streets, has been the site of two recent accidents.

    Tension is growing between city officials and the development community over the city's plans to improve construction site safety, following a second construction-related accident at the Trump SoHo over the weekend. The Bloomberg administration halted construction yesterday at the Trump SoHo development project after a dozen glass window panels came crashing down during a rainstorm on Saturday night. The windows were knocked loose by a chain attached to construction equipment on the 26th floor, and the Department of Buildings issued a violation to the contractor, Bovis Lend Lease, for failing to safeguard the public and property.

    About two months ago, a worker fell to his death from the roof at the same site, at the corner of Varick and Spring streets.

    "I think there is an enormous amount of concern. We have seen a ton of unsafe construction work that has led to building accidents," the executive director of the Greenwich Village Society for Historic Preservation, Andrew Berman, said. "If the city can't keep construction safe, it is a huge problem.

    That is a basic job that the city needs to do, and in all too many cases it is not getting done." In a statement, Bovis said there were no injuries and that the accident was caused by high winds.

    The event was the latest in a series of high-profile construction accidents. In the fall the city released statistics showing that 29 laborers died in work-related accidents in the 12 months preceding September 30, a figure which represents a 61% increase over the previous year; the number of safety violations at high-rise construction sites nearly doubled between November 2006 and November 2007.

    Mayor Bloomberg has been pushing the Department of Buildings to become less a liaison between the developers and the city and more an enforcement agency. In a speech last month, he said the department is "on the front lines of public safety in New York City," and last year he put the department in the portfolio of agencies that answers to the deputy mayor for operations, Edward Skyler, who also oversees the police and fire departments.

    "We're at the point where we have the foundation in place to fully transform from a reactive agency to a proactive one," the buildings commissioner, Patricia Lancaster, said yesterday in an e- mail message.

    But representatives within the development community fear that more aggressive oversight by the city could go too far could and have a deleterious effect on an industry that is already facing a weakening economy and a softer credit market.

    "It's becoming an issue," the president of the Real Estate Board of New York, Steven Spinola, said. Mr. Spinola said the city needs to be clearer about when a stop work order can be enacted and how long it can last. It often takes too long to get a construction site back up and running after a stop work order, leaving people out of work and development projects behind schedule, he said.

    "I do believe that the city is responding to a number of accidents — some terrible tragedies and other accidents where nobody got hurt. But why they believe shutting down that many jobs is going to correct the matter, well, you'll have to ask them," he said.

    Last month, the president of Manhattan, Scott Stringer, held a press conference calling for more aggressive inspections of building sites and the creation of a citizen watchdog group.

    Assemblyman James Brennan, a Democrat of Brooklyn who has authored two bills that would provide the Department of Buildings with greater enforcement tools, said much more needs to be done to crack down on illegal contractors. "I am pleased that the department is getting more aggressive, but we have a ways to go here," he said.

    Copyright 2008 The New York Sun.

  4. #1174

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    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    Not to mention, why does the huge wang (i.e., Trump) commission a great design for Chicago and crap for his hometown? Stunning towers that are under 600 feet can be built. Trump is a schmuck. His only saving grace is his VERY HOT daughter.
    Donald's not finished.

    You think he's going to let Verre, 225 W 57th, One 57, and The Drake take the high-end market? My bet is he tops them all (height-wise).

  5. #1175

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    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/busines...aKgyrYi8CNiLxH

    Oh, Donald:

    How you laughed at us while we were demonstrating back in 2007 at the ribbon-cutting ceremony for Trump SoHo, joking to the assembled press corps how our demonstrations, our lobbying and our lawsuits were bringing in so much publicity to your project that it was already 62% sold.

    Who's laughing now?

  6. #1176

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    Uh, Downtown Maven, you do realize that this isn't a Trump Project, right? The Trump Organization has 0% direct financial stake in the property.

    As to who's laughing, I assume it would be the developers, Bayrock and Sapir, as well as Trump, the licensee. They won, and successfully developed the project. The NIMBYs lost, and all their frivolous, time-wasting court claims were tossed.

  7. #1177

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    Quote Originally Posted by ASchwarz View Post
    Uh, Downtown Maven, you do realize that this isn't a Trump Project, right? The Trump Organization has 0% direct financial stake in the property.

    As to who's laughing, I assume it would be the developers, Bayrock and Sapir, as well as Trump, the licensee. They won, and successfully developed the project. The NIMBYs lost, and all their frivolous, time-wasting court claims were tossed.
    Thanks for taking the bait. You've been successfully trolled!

    Incidentally, we don't need information from you on who owns or who develops or who finances or who manages or who shills for Trump SoHo.

    No condos sold, it is being run as a hotel as the community called for.
    End of story.
    Move on.
    Don't be bitter.

    Btw, be sure to wipe the egg off Trump's face the next time you see him.

  8. #1178
    Fearless Photog RoldanTTLB's Avatar
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    I'm sure however it's being run is quite profitable, otherwise there would be an empty high rise just sitting there. Let's not jump at who's being bitter here though, because I'm confused on that point.

  9. #1179

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoldanTTLB View Post
    I'm sure however it's being run is quite profitable, otherwise there would be an empty high rise just sitting there. Let's not jump at who's being bitter here though, because I'm confused on that point.
    Being "sure" isn't fact. It's mere guessing or, worse, hype. Isn't that correct?

    Half-full high-rises usually aren't profitable, are they?

    Look at how many of the rooms have no lights on at night. Walk in the lobby and notice the lack of bustle or guests. Read how poorly the resto is doing. Observe the failure of its night-life component to attract crowds or publicity. Read how the debt had to be restructured. These are facts, not opinions.

    Your "confusion" on people's feelings appear to reflect your confusion on the project's success.

  10. #1180
    Fearless Photog RoldanTTLB's Avatar
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    I was actually just trying to be polite and not say that you seem to be the bitter one. I doubt Trump is bitter about the project. I'm also not hyping it, although you are correct, I am only guessing. I have to say, at more than 1000 posts in, the likelihood of me being some planted Trump shill is low, but I guess not zero.

    Really, I don't much care about this building one way or another. I would have to check the tape on community arguments about the building, but something tells me that drawing crowds would have been one of the key ways this building was going to destroy the neighborhood. If this building is not drawing crowds, as you say, then it's probably not destroying the neighborhood either. It's sort of just there, no?

    That said, half empty skyscrapers can absolutely be profitable. If construction costs are 600psf (reasonable target) and you're selling at 1200, then you're "breaking even" half way there.

  11. #1181

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoldanTTLB View Post
    I was actually just trying to be polite and not say that you seem to be the bitter one. I doubt Trump is bitter about the project. I'm also not hyping it, although you are correct, I am only guessing. I have to say, at more than 1000 posts in, the likelihood of me being some planted Trump shill is low, but I guess not zero.

    Really, I don't much care about this building one way or another. I would have to check the tape on community arguments about the building, but something tells me that drawing crowds would have been one of the key ways this building was going to destroy the neighborhood. If this building is not drawing crowds, as you say, then it's probably not destroying the neighborhood either. It's sort of just there, no?

    That said, half empty skyscrapers can absolutely be profitable. If construction costs are 600psf (reasonable target) and you're selling at 1200, then you're "breaking even" half way there.
    Fine. But for clarification, exactly who were you referring to as "bitter", since the dialogue you referred to at that point was between only ASchwarz and myself? Neither he nor I even hinted that Trump was bitter. So your clarification at who is the bitter one would be welcomed.

    No, drawing crowds was not the reason for the opposition. There are dozens of news reports readily available that the opposition arose strictly from Trump's attempt to introduce residential condos in an M zone where they are not permitted. By calling it a "hotel", which is permitted, he attempted to get around the zoning. It is this sleazy attempt at evading the zoning that the locals filed complaints with Speaker Quinn, the DoB and the courts. It is now running as a hotel, and not a single condo has sold. Who would be bitter at that successful result?

    Also, I used the word "shill" well before you commented this week onto the forum. Yet you say I claimed your "were hyping" or "shilling". Why would you even reach the illogical conclusion that I was referring to you?? Jeez. Simply incredible.

    Finally, "half empty skyscrapers can absolutely be profitable" Really? Can you name a few, instead of listing some hypothetical example you concocted.

  12. #1182

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    Um, no. The community didn't want it built. It got built. They lost.

    They didn't want it to be condos, because they felt it would be more successful as a condo builing than a hotel, so they thought by stopping it from being condos, they could stop construction. So after the fact, they won a battle after losing the war.

    Quote Originally Posted by DowntownMaven View Post
    No condos sold, it is being run as a hotel as the community called for.
    End of story.

  13. #1183
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    What the community didn't want was a de facto Re-Zoning of the area, which was the scheme cooked up by Trump & his crew.

    The community, by jamming the condo-tel plan, did win that fight.

    The Trump Soho plan as built proved to be a failed business model, as is witnessed by the forced return of deposits to investors.

  14. #1184
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    They can always convert it to residential after a zoning change, but it's still not an A+ location.

  15. #1185
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    And there is currently a big push to rezone that entire area, led by Trinity Real Estate which controls a bulk of properties down that way (no one should be surprised if Trinity gets most of what it wants):

    02/11/11

    ... Four years and several more oversized and out-of-context developments later, neither body has acted to close the supposed condo-hotel “loophole” or put forward any rezoning plan. However, last night Trinity Real Estate, the major property owner in the Hudson Square area, unveiled a draft proposal at Community Board #2 to rezone a 20-block ‘M1-6’ zoning district in Hudson Square, stretching from Houston to Canal Street, Sixth Avenue and Varick Street to Greenwich and Hudson Streets

    Hudson Square Rezoning & The South Village

    October 25, 2011

    The proposal to rezone Hudson Square by Trinity Realty will reach an important benchmark on Thursday
    when the City Planning Commission holds a hearing on the draft Environmental Impact Statement which precedes the review and approval process for the actual rezoning proposal. The proposed rezoning would expand development potential in Hudson Square by allowing for the first time as-of-right residential development and conversions in the area, while also placing some contextual development controls in place, limiting hotel development, and in a few areas reducing the allowable bulk of new development. The proposed rezoning would allow new development as high as 320 feet tall in most of Hudson Square, and 420 feet on one site at the southern end of the neighborhood (there are currently no height limits for development in Hudson Square) ...

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