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Thread: Trump SoHo - 246 Spring Street - Hotel and Condo - by Handel Architects

  1. #1231

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    "the local NIMBYs are THE WORST" - Is that you, Donald? Don't be a sore loser.

    "Zoning...IS the last bastion for the wicked and lazy" – At least it permits drugstores to be open 24/7, which is a benefit when you run out of meds.

  2. #1232

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    "the local NIMBYs are THE WORST."
    Thanks for the compliment!

  3. #1233

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    ooh we haven't had one of these in a while. Pass the popcorn.


  4. #1234
    Fearless Photog RoldanTTLB's Avatar
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    Hah! So true, but I mean, the locals lost, the building got built. It's on to the schadenfreude of maybe possibly the developers not making money hand over fist that allows them to sleep comfortably at night. Well done guys.

  5. #1235

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    Duh-oh! It was a parking lot. In NYC, parking lots get built upon. Welcome to NYC.

    The locals objected to the zoning/use flim-flam: Trump/Sapir's constructing non-conforming Residential Use and calling it conforming Hotel Use in order to avoid community input.

    Trump/Sapir tried to by-pass the zoning. Locals sued; got 30-day restriction on stay; Trump/Sapir failed, went into foreclosure as the result of locals' pressure. Now the project is operating as the zoning - and locals - wished - as a hotel.

    As a result, last year the City changed the zoning there to prevent a building like Trump SoHo from ever being built. Quite a victory.

    Must be very hard for someone based in Boulder to comprehend the complexities of NYC real estate and zoning and community activism. But do try. We NYers feel for you, realizing that haters will always hate.

  6. #1236
    Fearless Photog RoldanTTLB's Avatar
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    It wasn't a hard decision to move to Boulder from NYC when so many of the people there are just like you. And I also find it hard to believe that the objection was over zoning. The neighborhood didn't want the building built. Period. It was built. That's that. Zoning is only a means to an end to try and prevent something from happening.

  7. #1237
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    Default Truthin!

    Maven, Roldan was a New Yorker for MANY YEARS, including the time frame when this building was constructed.

  8. #1238

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    IIRC, the local NIMBYs didn't want the building at all. The fact that it was going to be a condotel (wink, wink) was just a tool for them to try and stop it. They didn't. It's still there in all it's tall glassy magnificence. It's not going away. It's just going to be a conventional hotel.

    And, IIRC, that area was rezoned to allow condo development, no?

  9. #1239
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    I'm a long time reader, never commenter, but DowntownMaven is being so ridiculous here I just have to chime in. To say that those behind the lawsuit cared only about zoning is so incredibly disingenuous. They didn't want the building built period. As BBMW said, the zoning fight (which you lost by the way) was a means to an end. But, if it makes you feel better please do continue to gloat over the good people of Wired New York.

  10. #1240

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    Quote Originally Posted by DowntownMaven View Post
    To all the doubters/haters on this thread who claimed that the activists' efforts at getting the 28-day restriction - as well as the myriad lawsuits - had nothing to do with ruining Trump/Sapir/Bayrock's scheme of a zoning end-run = ROTFL.
    Many of us on this thread didn't want the building. and as has been said many times in the past, that was the original purpose of the lawsuits.

    Well, the freaking thing got built, so the "win" morphed into hitting Trump with a financial loss. Again, it was pointed out that Trump had no financial stake in the building; it's even stated in Maven's latest link :

    Donald Trump’s Trump Organization does not own a stake in the property but operates the hotel and licenses its name to the property.
    Now it's Trump/Sapir/Bayrock. LOL.

    For those of us that either like, hate, or don't care about the building, there it stands. From our points of view, your organization was not relevant.

    Trump is still around, still rich, still making ridiculous comments, still occasionally running for president, and still in need of a good haircut. If you crave recognition, make these things go away and you'll have our undying gratitude.

  11. #1241

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    Stache, Roldan may have lived here during the height of the Trump SoHo controversy, but his knowledge of it is severely limited. As are many other commenters'.

    Not one single organization that opposed the zoning flim-flam, not one local elected officials, not one of the myriad lawsuits that opposed the zoning scam, ever, ever, ever complained about the construction of a building. Never. It was about the zoning violation that the project was trying to shove through. Period.

    To say otherwise is disingenuous, revisionist and an outright distortion of events. Why is that so hard to comprehend – unless people are in denial. Hate can do that.

    Considering that the locals have supported construction of a dozen other new residential bldgs - as well as hotels - in SoHo that DO obey the zoning laws, clearly belies the claims of the haters on this thread.

    It is a sad commentary about the internet that so many people on it believe what some anonymous, uninformed and ill-advised commenters claim, without ever going to original source material of the organizations, without ever going to a single community meeting on the scheme, or without ever doing the slightest effort to research the facts – simply hitting the Reply key like a chimp in a lab experiment.

    For those of us who actually know the facts, who read the lawsuits, who attended the meetings = we know the truth, the history, the reality of this controversy.

    For the haters, the doubters, and the misinformed, go to Google, type in "Trump SoHo" + "community opposition", and educate yourself before making further asses of yourself in public.
    Last edited by DowntownMaven; January 30th, 2015 at 02:06 PM.

  12. #1242

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    BBMW: "And, IIRC, that area was rezoned to allow condo development, no?"[/QUOTE]

    Precisely. Slowly, ever so slowly, you are beginning to get it!

    The fact is that the community supported the recent rezoning, spurred in great part by Trinity Real Estate, reacting to the legal efforts of the locals, when it saw how Trump/Sapir was able to manipulate the zoning language. In fact, during negotiations, the community was able to modify the proposed zoning text to its own benefit.

    Not one single person opposed construction of new buildings. Not one! Such nonsensical fabrications exist only within the imagination of the haters on this thread. So now responsible condo developments in that area can proceed with the approval of the community.

    Doncha just hate it when the facts get in the way of your prejudices?

  13. #1243

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    Word for today...
    Delusional:
    a. A false belief or opinion
    b. The act or process of deluding.
    c. The state of being deluded.

  14. #1244

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    Quote Originally Posted by DowntownMaven View Post
    Stache, Roldan may have lived here during the height of the Trump SoHo controversy, but his knowledge of it is severely limited. As are many other commenters'.
    Any activist with competence would have simply looked up Roldan's profile before cornering himself with a post about Boulder. Roldan has been here a long time, and, whether you agree with him or not, knows what he is talking about.

    Not one single organization that opposed the zoning flim-flam, not one local elected officials, not one of the myriad lawsuits that opposed the zoning scam, ever, ever, ever complained about the construction of a building.
    Again, you should check first.

    From 2006:
    During the standing-room-only hearing at Housing Works on W. 13th St., Philip Mouquinho of C.B. 2 summed up the general mood of the board and the local community when he told Paul Selver, an attorney representing an absent Trump, that the proposal for a high-rise hotel in a low-rise historic neighborhood was an “insane idea.”

    Berman’s concerns about the development were underscored by Richard Blodgett of the Charlton St. Block Association, who also spoke passionately against the development.

    Blodgett said the block association had rejected the proposal, citing concerns about additional traffic congestion — the hotel would be close to the Holland Tunnel — and additional strains on existing infrastructure.

    Written statements condemning the proposal were also read aloud by representatives of City Council Speaker Christine Quinn and Assemblymember Deborah Glick, who chided the development as being “out of character” and “out of scale” for the neighborhood.
    Quote Originally Posted by DowntownMaven View Post
    To say otherwise is disingenuous, revisionist and an outright distortion of events. Why is that so hard to comprehend – unless people are in denial. Hate can do that.
    So you're in denial?

    Or is it hate? Of who, Trump?

    A comment by a reader of the Real Deal article. Was that you?

    • no-permits
      he’s a loser.
    • Trump the Loser
      SoHo to Trump! = Loser!
    Looks like someone is obsessed with Trump.

    The rest of us have moved on from this topic years ago. The building is here, and so is Trump. You've revived this thread twice, for what - to elicit approval from us? Just pat yourself on the back if it makes you feel better. All you've accomplished here is give EastMillinocket some quality popcorn time.

  15. #1245

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    "Any activist with competence would have simply looked up Roldan's profile before cornering himself with a post about Boulder."
    I am not a stalker, and I have better things to research than anonymous commenters domiciles. If that is your MO, and it seems to be, you may have way too much time on your hands, Zippy.

    Regarding the other (selective) quotes you supplied, not one referenced opposition to a conforming hotel being built, did it? The Villager article clearly indicated that the use that was the issue, not a building. Things like "traffic congestion" were a mere ancillary issue, not a reason that was ever seriously offered to stop the project. And would even you deny that it is "out of character" and "out of scale"? Of course not! Even a blind person would agree with that.


    Further, your selective quotes from people not directly involved with the issue is a failed effort at avoiding the thrust of the opposition.
    Why not be intellectually honest and supply the quotes from an opposition leader that were stated in the opening paragraphs? To wit:
    "Activists, led by Andrew Berman, executive director of the Greenwich Village Society for Historic Preservation, said that while the project is being touted by Trump as a “transients” hotel, for accommodating short stays only, in reality he appears to have plans for a residential condo-hotel.
    The committee recommended sending a letter to the Board of Standards and Appeals questioning the legality of raising a 400-unit residential hotel in a manufacturing-zoned district. The site, on the western edge of Soho, is not zoned to allow residential use."

    Clearly, there was no opposition to a building being built. The opposition was to Trump's "Trojan Horse", an end-run around our zoning laws: trying to build Residential by calling it a Hotel in order to avoid community review.

    "to elicit approval from us?" Sir, you surely have a bloviated sense of the worth of your approval. Besides, I had absolutely no idea there were time limits on this thread. Is that something you arbitrarily are trying to create? It was widespread news this week that the building is now going to be used as we locals had insisted that it be used for. Are you really saying that bringing it up on this thread, created for the sole purpose of Trump SoHo, is not germane?

    Sorry, Mr. Chimp, better go back to pushing those lab buttons, a task better suited for those arboreal simians who cannot see the forest from the trees.

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