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Thread: Proposed - 980 Madison Avenue - by Norman Foster

  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio
    In Italian itīs "cache".
    Not to mention, considering that you're writing in a foreign language, your English spelling and grammar are superb.

  2. #17

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    Someone who opposes a project sight unseen is a NIMBY. There is no argument there. Such as someone that scores a 70 on their IQ test is dumb, and someone who scores an 800 on their SATS is not college material. And someone who works at a fast-food restaurant as a career is probably poor. The list goes on and on. The truth is not always what we want to hear. That said, I was simply stating a fact, and that is that the judgment you put out is that of a NIMBY.
    Last edited by NoyokA; April 22nd, 2006 at 12:56 PM.

  3. #18

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    I don´t know about all the other stuff and I really don´t care but concerning this thread, for the record...LondonLawyers original comment was:


    "I hope that the tower will not be tall because, notwithstanding The Carlyle, this part of the UES is not suited for a tall tower".

    He is absolutely right. And this is NOT a matter of opinion. It is the law. The zoning laws that Lofter posted show that 19 floors seem to be the max....while the Carlyle hotel next door is 40 stories. As London says: "... not withstanding The Carlyle, this part of the UES is not suited for a tall tower". Well?

    He goes on to say:

    "I also hope that it will not be glass because a shiny tower would look absurd in this area."

    The fact is, this stretch of Madison is part of the Upper East Side Historic District.... not only are there height restrictions, but there is a review of the appropriateness of materials as well.

    Naturally an architect of Foster´s stature is used to working with preservationists and within historic districts. About the hotel he is doing at Aldwych, his web site states:

    "The proposals have been developed with sensitivity to the Strand Conservation area and in close consultation with Westminster Planners. Retaining the Grade II listed facade to the rear, Portland Stone has been used for the new elements, to remain in keeping with the original Aldwych masterplan."

    "The concept was to create a seamless relationship between the existing building and the contemporary additions. The hotel is contained within the new facade, which corresponds in height, scale and material palette to the adjacent apartment accommodation within the earlier listed masonry facade."

    Please note the key words and phrases: "sensitivity", "close consultation" "in keeping with the original....masterplan", "seemless relationship", "corresponds in height, scale and material palette ".

    I think Foster will be fine on Madison.
    Last edited by Fabrizio; April 22nd, 2006 at 06:35 AM.

  4. #19

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    Its not in the best interest of this coversation so I moderated personal comments on everyone's part. Please continue conversation: New Foster Tower at 76th and Madison.
    Last edited by NoyokA; April 22nd, 2006 at 01:00 PM.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio
    I don´t know about all the other stuff and I really don´t care but concerning this thread, for the record...LondonLawyers original comment was:


    "I hope that the tower will not be tall because, notwithstanding The Carlyle, this part of the UES is not suited for a tall tower".

    He is absolutely right. And this is NOT a matter of opinion. It is the law. The zoning laws that Lofter posted show that 19 floors seem to be the max....while the Carlyle hotel next door is 40 stories. As London says: "... not withstanding The Carlyle, this part of the UES is not suited for a tall tower". Well?

    He goes on to say:

    "I also hope that it will not be glass because a shiny tower would look absurd in this area."

    The fact is, this stretch of Madison is part of the Upper East Side Historic District.... not only are there height restrictions, but there is a review of the appropriateness of materials as well.

    Naturally an architect of Foster´s stature is used to working with preservationists and within historic districts. About the hotel he is doing at Aldwych, his web site states:

    "The proposals have been developed with sensitivity to the Strand Conservation area and in close consultation with Westminster Planners. Retaining the Grade II listed facade to the rear, Portland Stone has been used for the new elements, to remain in keeping with the original Aldwych masterplan."

    "The concept was to create a seamless relationship between the existing building and the contemporary additions. The hotel is contained within the new facade, which corresponds in height, scale and material palette to the adjacent apartment accommodation within the earlier listed masonry facade."

    Please note the key words and phrases: "sensitivity", "close consultation" "in keeping with the original....masterplan", "seemless relationship", "corresponds in height, scale and material palette ".

    I think Foster will be fine on Madison.
    Good points, Fabrizio. Lois Weiss' original article in the NY Post predicated a sheer curtain wall for this project. I truly hope that she is wrong.

    Moreover, while I trust Foster, he sadly will have to answer to the truly insipid Abby Rosen whose lack of taste is demonstrated by his intended demolition of the YMCA building on Lex. This building should be preserved. I envision Rosen demanding that Foster design a shiny glass tower for this area.

  6. #21

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    Foster did do the Asprey store at Trump tower on 5th. Itīs a sheer glass wall...and might give an idea of how heīd handle a similair situation at street level here. Ok, it is in a building that already exists ...but it is done with exquisite understated taste. Perhaps a developer will make demands....but Iīd imagine someone like Foster also guards his reputation. Remember too...this is a residential neighborhood of wealthy sophisticated people... the developer and Foster will have to deal with them, The Landmarks Commision, The Friends of the Upper East Side Historic District..... it will be interesting.

  7. #22

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    I'm beginning to think that star architects, like everyone else, are ruled by their "bottom line"/finances. For example, Rogers was forced by pro-Israel supporters to come begging on his hands and knees and request forgiveness because he dared to support the beleagured Palestinians whose systematic human rights abuse by Israel is condoned by the US. Why did he jettison his principles? Apparently because he wanted to keep the Javits and Silvercup commissions. Similarly, Frank Gehry recently started selling a jewelry line at Tiffany's! I hope that Foster differentiates himself and stands up to any pressure that Rosen might apply.

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio
    Foster did do the Asprey store at Trump tower on 5th. Itīs a sheer glass wall...and might give an idea of how heīd handle a similair situation at street level here....
    I think that glass is acceptable in Midtown, but it is not in the prime portion of the UES.

  9. #24

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    Look how brilliant this is. Look how he curved the windows at the entrance....that´s an old timey touch that was seen in luxury shops decades ago. The curved cornace...the use of black and white. This is pure 5th avenue. It looks modern but as wealthy as anything from 5th avenue´s heyday. It makes the big, brassy, Trump Tower entrance look even more cheap and crass. I don´t think that stretch of Madison could handle something this grand....but Foster sure knows what he´s doing (thanks to Edward for the photo):


    [/QUOT
    Last edited by Fabrizio; April 22nd, 2006 at 03:10 PM.

  10. #25

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    Londonlawyer:

    I thought you lived north of the city.

    Just wondering how you can be a NIMBY outside your backyard.

  11. #26
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Speaking of 5th in the area of Trump Tower: The folks at Bulgari on 5th Ave. have temporarily closed down and have erected plywood in front of that store; signage says "reopening 2007".

    Seems they are re-doing their facade and finally freeing us of that tired 80's storefront:


  12. #27

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    "....have temporarily closed down and have erected plywood".

    But I bet it´s GOOD plywood.

    Yes, that Bulgari shop was dated about 15 minutes after completion. I guarantee you the new store-front will be drop dead beautiful. Bulgari now owns a hotel in Milan (and Bali)...the design is impeccable. they will get this right.

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
    Londonlawyer:

    I thought you lived north of the city.

    Just wondering how you can be a NIMBY outside your backyard.
    Zippy, londonlawyer lives in the UES like myself. I don't see why you would want to open another can of worms.

  14. #29

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    Why do you assume that I want to open a can of worms.

    I asked londonlawyer a question. Since so much has been deleted from this thread, I didn't understand why he was taking heat.

  15. #30

    Default The Existing Building

    I'm so glad that these great british architects like Grimshaw, Rogers and, of course, Foster are finally getting so much work here. I also like the idea that even an established area like UES along madison can be improved by their handiwork -- which I hope continues to prove that cutting edge and tasteful are not mutually exclusive...

    As an aside though, i am one of the few people who do like that existing building especially the existing bas-relief sculpture over the main entry, and the concentration of galleries to be found there. My hope is that the existing building, if in shell only, is maintained and integrated into the new design alla Hearst or some of Foster's work in London. Another great example of fusing old and cutting edge contemporary is grimshaw's Spa in Bath, England.

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