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Thread: 150 Greenwich Street - WTC Tower #4 - by Fumihiko Maki

  1. #76

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    The fundamental approach to the design of the project is two-fold - a "minimalist" tower that achieves an appropriate presence, quiet but with dignity, on a site facing the Memorial and a "podium" that becomes a catalyst in activating/enlivening the immediate urban environment as part of the redevelopment efforts of lower Manhattan. The facades are clad in a floor to ceiling glass assembly that sandwich perforated meshed metal material at the spandrel areas and portions immediately below the ceiling to provide shading on the interior and a certain lightness and transparency on the exterior. >From afar in the skyline, the tower is intended to present a unique angular profile with a distinct materiality composed of glass and metal.

    www.maki-and-associates.co.jp

  2. #77
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    ^It looks like WTC4 has been altered. It looks like the notch in the SW corner has been extended all the way to the ground. I think the podium might have been changed as well. I can't tell from that angle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
    I think the renderings just make it look bulky. The building only has 1.8 msf of office space, slightly more than 7WTC and less than BOA.. However, I think this number just includes rentable office space and excludes mechanicals, retail, etc....so maybe it is a fat ass.
    All the numbers for the WTC have been just the net space. For gross sqft add 30-40 percent to the rentable space to approximate the mechanical footprint.

    So...
    1,800(office)+150(retail)=1950(total net space)
    1950*1.2=2,340K sqft
    1950*1.4=2,730K sqft

    There should be somewhere between 2.3M and 2.7M total square feet. That still seems a little low to me. Do you think they cut out the space the PA is going to rent?

  3. #78
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STR View Post

    It looks like WTC4 has been altered. It looks like the notch in the SW corner has been extended all the way to the ground.
    In that site rendering it does look like the notch at the SW corner goes the full length of the building.

    This rendering shows otherwise:



    The floor plan for street level shows a notch at the SW corner:


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    That's not the notch. It's a two story high overhang with a half dozen stair steps beneath. The podium breaks the two up.

  5. #80

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    I don't understand what notch you're talking about. Where is the two-story high overhang with half dozen steps underneath?

  6. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kris View Post
    Forgive me, but what I see here is really DUMB site design. All the buildings standing around like clueless idiots at the prom. No rhyme, no reason. Sorry, but despite all the anguished man-hours that have been poured into this, there's no idea here. Calatrava is lost, skyscrapers lined up with zero sophistication. Two big, inexplicable holes with bathetic water...don't even want to go on...

    The Emperor's Clothes. Pathetic.

  7. #82
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    More images from the site. This first one clearly shows that the notch on the southwestern corner does not go all the way to the street, but stops (or starts) about 5 floors above the atrium.



    The atrium:



    The lobby:


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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post

    ... what I see here is really DUMB site design. All the buildings standing around like clueless idiots at the prom. No rhyme, no reason.

    ... there's no idea here.
    Like it or not, Libeskind's Original Master Plan for the site had both an idea and unity -- but the vast majority of it suffered death by a thousand cuts ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post

    Calatrava is lost
    Calatrava's Transportation Center would work far better with more open space all around.

    Great design. Wrong site?

    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post

    ... skyscrapers lined up with zero sophistication. Two big, inexplicable holes ...
    Libeskind's original Plan called for structures to encircle the memorial area -- but the circular rampway disappeared in the blink of an eye -- the first cut.

    He also undoerstood that low-rise buildings in proximity to the footprints would accentuate what was no longer there. Since his original Master Plan was first presented almost 4 years ago almost everything nearby the footprints has been pushed back -- thus the awkward line up across Greenwich St.

    And although 5WTC is not part of the actual WTC site Libeskind included it in his original designs, knowing that it was needed to balance the void where the Towers once stood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    Forgive me, but what I see here is really DUMB site design. All the buildings standing around like clueless idiots at the prom. No rhyme, no reason. Sorry, but despite all the anguished man-hours that have been poured into this, there's no idea here. Calatrava is lost, skyscrapers lined up with zero sophistication. Two big, inexplicable holes with bathetic water...don't even want to go on...

    The Emperor's Clothes. Pathetic.
    Your dumb is my brilliant. Go figure. I assume you think there should have been someone to design the whole thing at once to make it more cohesive? How Unjohncagian of you.

  10. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by lbjefferies View Post
    I assume you think there should have been someone to design the whole thing at once to make it more cohesive?
    Right assumption if you mean someone should have come up with a design order; wrong assumption if you mean I think one person should have designed all the buildings, like the Campidoglio.

    Buildings can be placed in inspired relationships that are more than the a-a-a-a that dumbs down this site plan. You could say the "cohesiveness" is already there: it's buildings lined up in a row. But it's an oppressive cohesiveness: the "order" of a suburban subdivision. Really it's not order at all; it's the regimentation of chaos.

    Examples of inspired building compositions that are more than the sum of parts: the Roman Forum, Boston's Christian Science Center, San Marco, Rockefeller Center, Columbia University. I'm sure you can add many to the list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    Right assumption if you mean someone should have come up with a design order; wrong assumption if you mean I think one person should have designed all the buildings, like the Campidoglio.

    Buildings can be placed in inspired relationships that are more than the a-a-a-a that dumbs down this site plan. You could say the "cohesiveness" is already there: it's buildings lined up in a row. But it's an oppressive cohesiveness: the "order" of a suburban subdivision. Really it's not order at all; it's the regimentation of chaos.

    Examples of inspired building compositions that are more than the sum of parts: the Roman Forum, Boston's Christian Science Center, San Marco, Rockefeller Center, Columbia University. I'm sure you can add many to the list.

    Sure, I can think of one very good example. The new world trade center (did you see that coming ). I love each of the skyscrapers, I love the memorial and I love Calatrava's stegasaurus. And I love them all even more as a whole. Do you think I am dumb for thinking something so "dumb" is brilliant?

  12. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by lbjefferies View Post
    Do you think I am dumb for thinking something so "dumb" is brilliant?
    No, but you'll have to explain it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    No, but you'll have to explain it.
    Perhaps another time. I'm off to bed. Have a good night.

  14. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by lbjefferies View Post
    Perhaps another time. I'm off to bed. Have a good night.
    OK now, you've had your sleep; time to pony up your explanation.

    You'll find mine in posts 81 and 85.

    In between, you'll find lofter on the fence.

  15. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    Forgive me, but what I see here is really DUMB site design. All the buildings standing around like clueless idiots at the prom. No rhyme, no reason. Sorry, but despite all the anguished man-hours that have been poured into this, there's no idea here. Calatrava is lost, skyscrapers lined up with zero sophistication. Two big, inexplicable holes with bathetic water...don't even want to go on...The Emperor's Clothes. Pathetic.
    I agree, but it has nothing to do with Libeskind's design, and everything to do with the politics of the site. The final result was driven by the "families'" demand for the "footprints" to remain free "from bedrock to infinity." Once Pataki agreed to that demand, which he did very early in the process, then everything else necessarily followed. Greenwich and Fulton Streets had to be reopened through the site in order to carve out developable parcels from the memorial area, and all of the buildings had to be crowded along the edges. The PAC and the Calatrava had to be put where they were, like a checkerboard, in order to leave some light and space between the towers. As for the architects, having foisted this ridiculous site plan on Silverstein, the last thing Pataki could do was tell him who was going to design the buildings, not if the Port Authority was going to keep collecting its enormous rents. Thus, Silverstein did what any real estate developer would do in his situation. Wanting to put lipstick on this pig, he gathered together a collection of corporate starchitects, each of whom came up with their own design with no respect for the others. And here we are. That being said, the final design is actually much better than 99% of what I have seen proposed for the site in the last five years.

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