Bad Neighborhoods to avoid???

[MrSpice]

You're not being objective - you said the weathiest neighborhoods were the safest. Schadenfrau linked to actual crime stats. That's objective. The problem with the question of safety in this context is that people are throwing around racist and classist prejudices (which are subjective). We all have some kind of prejudice, so let's just drop the pretense and acknowledge that the answers most people are throwing out are not objective. Everyone is speaking to their own comfort in certain neighborhoods.

Many of those precincts lie in the mixed neighborhoods. I.e., one precinct can cover some bad and some good areas. And looking at the objective statistics for the precincts, I see quite a bit of crime in areas like Brownsville and East New York for the precincts located in these areas.

[timbaker]

You sound racist to me

I'll be visiting NYC next week, 5/29 - 6/1, and I too was curious as to what neighborhoods to avoid in order to better my chances of NOT being mugged. So, I began to read the thread, but you immediately turned the topic into racism.

How is it that someone "sounds racist" to you because they want to stay away from the "dangerous" neighborhoods? Let me give a quick math lesson if you will: If Neighborhood_1 had 50 muggings within a four block radius last year, and Neighborhood_2 had 2 muggings within the same radius, all other things being equal, it shouldn't take a math genius to figure out that a person has a lot better chance of being mugged in Neighborhood_1 than in Neighborhood_2, NO? And personally, I don't care if you're white, black, chinese, puerto-rican, or a combination of. If you're going to steal my wallet, I'm going to try to avoid you. So from that view, I am not racist - I avoid ANY and ALL people who want to rob me!!

This next one kills me:

...if your not from here, and the first thing you ask is what safe or not, thats just wrong, come here and see for yourself, dont judge people and areas just on the race they may or may not be.

Um, yeah, I'll get right on that. I'll show that I'm not a "racist" by strolling smack dab through the middle of all the downtrodden neighborhoods, alone at night, with no worries of being robbed to "find out for myself"

Let me guess... Your'e NOT a tourist advisor! Am I right?

It sounds to me like YOU have the problem with race, and I won't even humor you by indicating what race I am. But please, it's comments like these that cheapen the the struggle against racism, and even make them worse.

Cheers!

[Schadenfrau]

Let me add a quick math lesson of my own.

We'll do a compare/contrast between the 19th Precinct on the Upper East Side and the 40th Precinct in the South Bronx.

19th Precinct, 2005:
Robberies- 307
Burglaries- 477
Grand Larcenies- 1,889
Number of Housing Projects- 3

40th Precinct, 2005:
Robberies- 553
Burglaries- 241
Grand Larcenies- 376
Number of Housing Projects- 11

How exactly are those numbers supported by the fear-mongering garbage posted on this thread?

It's important to remember that the majority of crime is interpersonal, particularly in poorer neighborhoods.

It seems like the people who are howling the loudest about the dangers of housing projects and the people who live in them are people who have no actual familiarity with what they're talking about.

Still, people will believe whatever they want to believe. If you'd pass over NYPD crime statistics in favor of someone living in Australia declaring that Red Hook and Alphabet City are no-go zones, by all means, go ahead. And have fun in Times Square, located in a precinct with 332 robberies and 617 burglaries last year. Oh, and no housing projects at all.

[Ninjahedge]

Schade, stop posting district tallies and start posting criminal backgrounds of individuals involed in violent crime in NYC.

We all know numbers, while they can't lie, can be made to tell some awfully wacky things.

(My bad, Kliq) came in here with his Minority Discrimination guns a-blazing when nobody was saying anything about them and managed to piss most of the people off, including the guy asking the question.

Wouldn't it be funny if the guy was black? Well, maybe not funny, but definitely Ironic.

->ryan chipped in, but he was not the gun-blazer.... Again, my bad on the original<-

As for the arguement, there is no point in saying anything to either of you guys on a subject you are obviously charged about. It never ends and always gets more heated.

The only thing I can ask of both of you is to do the forum a favor and play dumb to any inferred reference YOU feel has been made in these venues. Most of the time there is no reference, intended or not, and it only serves to divide the community.

Asking someone to be careful or more considerate in a PM is one thnig, but shouting "racist" when someone talks of crimes in poor areas is just looking for a fight.

'Nuff said.

[James_Oz]

Robberies and grand larcenies are hardly ever reported. So the statistics are flawed. Of course there will be more burglaries in an area where there is more to burgle.

Posting murder statistics might get you close, but likely not very close, to the reality of a given neighbourhood.

The poster asked for "bad neighbourhoods to avoid". I never said those mentioned were no-go zones. NYC is not Baghdad. However, you would probably be wise to avoid them for the most part. Sure, Alphabet City is supposedly reviving in Avs. A & B. But C & D are still very dodgy, apparently. Even Harlem has less crime than before but that doesn't make it a safe place to live. Just because this isn't 1970's NYC doesn't mean there aren't still some shitholes in the city that should be avoided.

The topic is probably moot anyway because you can generally tell a bad neighbourhood from some distance away. It's not like the poster is just going to stumble into the 'hood and ask some gang banger for directions to central park.

[Schadenfrau]

Schade, stop posting district tallies and start posting criminal backgrounds of individuals involed in violent crime in NYC.

Asking someone to be careful or more considerate in a PM is one thnig, but shouting "racist" when someone talks of crimes in poor areas is just looking for a fight.

In response to the first suggestion, I'm not sure what good posting "criminal backgrounds" would do for anyone. The question posed in this thread was about neighborhoods, not whether or not specific criminals involved in specific crimes grew up in North Dakota or not.

Secondly, neither Ryan nor I threw down the race card. If you're going to play at being a moderator, give credit where it's due, Ninjahedge. I just jumped on the bandwagon; Ryan didn't even go that far.

[Ninjahedge]

In response to the first suggestion, I'm not sure what good posting "criminal backgrounds" would do for anyone.

It would make it so that you would be able to see where most of these guys are coming from and where they did their deeds rather than where they were arrested as shown by district.

The question posed in this thread was about neighborhoods, not whether or not specific criminals involved in specific crimes grew up in North Dakota or not.

I never asked for that. How many live in the Bronx? Where did they commit their crimes and how. Don't divide it by precinct. Like I said, most of us do not know NYC by its police precincts, so reporting crime by them helps very little.

Also considering the fact that crime itself usually does not delineate where these precincts are laid out, it does not offer us a clear picture on where visitors should be more cautious about going.

Secondly, neither Ryan nor I threw down the race card.

Sorry, (my bad), Kliq was devils advocate at the start...

But comments like this:

Here's a link to a site that details the various ethnic groups in NYC neighborhoods. Should help everyone avoid the ethnic group(s) they hate.

Don't exactly help things.

Most of the people here were careful to try to associate crime with socioeconomic brackets rather than race.

If you do not see it that way, there is nothing I can do to make you.

If you're going to play at being a moderator, give credit where it's due, Ninjahedge. I just jumped on the bandwagon; Ryan didn't even go that far.

Go how far? That makes no sense Schade. As for "playing" moderator, I am just trying to get you to stop arguing. Since when is that a bad thing? You mean I am only allowed to come on here and argue with people or avoid the topic when I see a subject that is getting out of hand?

Did I ever threaten any action? "Stop this or I will tell on you!". No, I didn't.

And stop using "moderator" like a curse word. I would rather have things moderated than unbridled OR restricted.



I reigned myself in on a long (probably about 30 minutes worth of typing) response to all the things you and ryan are going on about, but it would have served no purpose.

It would not have answered the threads original question and it would not have changed either of your minds. You think your posts here are going to do anything about changing anyone else's minds? The only thing the arguing has done has made a new, and possibly quite moderate person, alienated from this forum.

We should all try to avoid this. I have been to enough forums that have died because the long-time squatters there start marking their territory on everything and anyone that comes in. As the long timers fade out, and are not replaced by anyone new, the discussions stagnate and all you are left with are 5 people having the same arguments over and over again.

Lets not do that.

No finger pointing. No "well he started it". Nothing. Lets try to keep the arguments to a low roar and make this forum more inviting to new people that may not be 100% what we are looking for, but still contribute to the community.

If not, whatever. Your choice. Your life.

Asta.

[krulltime]

Ryan came in here with his Minority Discrimination guns a-blazing when nobody was saying anything about them and managed to piss most of the people off, including the guy asking the question.

Ryan? Don't you mean kliq6?

[MrSpice]

Let me add a quick math lesson of my own.

We'll do a compare/contrast between the 19th Precinct on the Upper East Side and the 40th Precinct in the South Bronx.

19th Precinct, 2005:
Robberies- 307
Burglaries- 477
Grand Larcenies- 1,889
Number of Housing Projects- 3

40th Precinct, 2005:
Robberies- 553
Burglaries- 241
Grand Larcenies- 376
Number of Housing Projects- 11

How exactly are those numbers supported by the fear-mongering garbage posted on this thread?

It's important to remember that the majority of crime is interpersonal, particularly in poorer neighborhoods.

It seems like the people who are howling the loudest about the dangers of housing projects and the people who live in them are people who have no actual familiarity with what they're talking about.

Still, people will believe whatever they want to believe. If you'd pass over NYPD crime statistics in favor of someone living in Australia declaring that Red Hook and Alphabet City are no-go zones, by all means, go ahead. And have fun in Times Square, located in a precinct with 332 robberies and 617 burglaries last year. Oh, and no housing projects at all.

Why don't you show as an example and take a walk in East New York or Crown Heights after dark?
Have you been to Harlem after dark? I am not talking about a subweay station on 125th Street where lots of people are coming from work in the evening. I mean, deeper into Harlem in the evening?

have you ever been to these neighborhoods? Well, I have. And it's pretty scary - not because I am biased or have prejudice, it is objectively scary. Try it and then we will talk about precincts.

[James_Oz]

Agree with above.

It's so easy to objectively sit back and quote crime statistics.

Hell half the neighbourhoods that are only moderately "bad" in NYC would make many people feel intimidated.

There are even neighbourhoods in my little country-town of a city that are unbelievably dangerous to walk through, alone, after dark.

Of course this isn't to say that you will be jumped, bashed, and killed by walking through any of the neighbourhoods I mentioned. But you will likely feel intimidated walking through them and are putting yourself at some risk if you go there after dark, alone.

So, the general rule is - avoid far eastern Brooklyn, Jamaica etc in Queens, south Bronx and far northern Manhattan. You will then be avoiding the majority of "bad neighbourhoods".

[arbeiter]

James, what business do you even have in here?

This fearmongering is exactly why New York continues to have a bad reputation among some. Sure, Avenue C and D aren't perfect, but who goes that far east? All of the bars and restaurants are west of there.

It seems some people are coming on here just to have their already-determined viewpoint upheld, and are not interested in advice from locals.

Go hang out on West 79th if you're really that freaking scared, people. We don't need you around our 'real' neighborhoods.

[NYatKNIGHT]

It seems some people are coming on here just to have their already-determined viewpoint upheld, and are not interested in advice from locals.

You nailed it.

[James_Oz]

The original poster asked a simple question, which I answered. Pretty straight-forward.

As far as I can tell the "locals" here are only interested in stating that NYC is a city without a single bad neighbourhood.

You even stated yourself - "who goes that far east"? I dunno, but the original poster now knows not to. Which is why he asked the question in the first place.

If you're that freaking hardcore, go back to loitering outside Morrisania Air Rights. We don't need you street - toughs on west 79th.

[Bright Lights, Big City]

Jake said:

"Cut the liberal crap, you can't evict me for preferring THIS country over China, Mexico, Iraq, Pakistan, Puerto Rico, and everyplace else."

Just so you know, Puerto Rico is part of the US, not another country.

Perhaps this is part of what you love about America - not needing to know that Puerto Rico is part of your country.

peace

BL, BC

[milleniumcab]

You said you wiil be staying for 3 days. Don't worry you won't have time to hit the BAD STREETS. I drive a cab and tell all tourists what I'm gonna tell you. Use your common sense and you will be allright. New York have never been safer but don't take a hundred dollar bill and wave it in the air. Get it...

I'll be visiting NYC next week, 5/29 - 6/1, and I too was curious as to what neighborhoods to avoid in order to better my chances of NOT being mugged. So, I began to read the thread, but you immediately turned the topic into racism.

How is it that someone "sounds racist" to you because they want to stay away from the "dangerous" neighborhoods? Let me give a quick math lesson if you will: If Neighborhood_1 had 50 muggings within a four block radius last year, and Neighborhood_2 had 2 muggings within the same radius, all other things being equal, it shouldn't take a math genius to figure out that a person has a lot better chance of being mugged in Neighborhood_1 than in Neighborhood_2, NO? And personally, I don't care if you're white, black, chinese, puerto-rican, or a combination of. If you're going to steal my wallet, I'm going to try to avoid you. So from that view, I am not racist - I avoid ANY and ALL people who want to rob me!!

This next one kills me:


Um, yeah, I'll get right on that. I'll show that I'm not a "racist" by strolling smack dab through the middle of all the downtrodden neighborhoods, alone at night, with no worries of being robbed to "find out for myself"

Let me guess... Your'e NOT a tourist advisor! Am I right?

It sounds to me like YOU have the problem with race, and I won't even humor you by indicating what race I am. But please, it's comments like these that cheapen the the struggle against racism, and even make them worse.

Cheers!